Whats happend to broadway?

[Beowulf]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 9:51am

I'm sure everyone has noticed by now that Usher is playing Billy Flynn on broadway. Congrats to Usher. But now Ashlee Simpson might be play the part of Roxie. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this just proves that broadway is no longer about the art of theatre, but the money thrown into it. I dont want to go to my favorite theatre and watch some pop star try and play the part of my favorite characters. I want to see unknown people that have worked their way up in the theatre world. Next thing you know, Edwin McCain will be Fyiero. This makes me sick.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 9:56am

It's all about the green.

[Beowulf]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 9:59am

Which is truely sad because if you are like me, I love theater. I dont care who is in the play if they are just amazing. But I do care if they didnt have to work to get there. There are thousands of people that want these parts in these productions, and they look for the biggest star they can instead of making one. Its sad that the fine arts world has fallen to the money as well.

[WiiCKED x3]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 10:14am

Amen.

I agree with you 100%.

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 10:20am

Oh good lord, how many times do we need to have this discussion. Newsflash: Broadway has always been about business. You've heard the phrase, 'that's why it's called show business'?

For decades there have been actors/performers who have gone back and forth between stage and screen. It's nothing new. Nothing "happened to Broadway". Producers can cast whomever they choose, it's always been that way. So they've cast Usher, and maybe even Ashlee, it's their prerogative. If you don't agree with it, don't go to those shows. There are lots of other choices and always will be.

[Beowulf]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 10:44am

You are missing the point. Its no longer up and coming people haveing doors open. They are shutting off the world from the arts and making it that much harder to be discovered. If they only choose these rich and famous pop stars that have cameras all over them, then they bring in a different crowd of people. Its not about the show and the talent anymore, but the money and the sex appeal. Now broadway is exactly like hollywood. Thats a discrace to theatre.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:07am

This is nothing new in the theater.

I can remember when Julie Harris left FORTY CARATS and was replaced by June Allyson, who was replaced by Zsa Zsa Gabor.

Ken Howard was replaced in SEESAW by matinee idol John Gavin

Don't tell me that Pearl Bailey's stint in HELLO, DOLLY! wasn't "stunt casting"--and the show won an 11th Tony Award, to boot!

Eric McCormack in THE MUSIC MAN???? It was a better show when he took over!

Phyllis Diller in HELLO, DOLLY!

Loretta Swit and Ted Bessell in SAME TIME, NEXT YEAR

Betty Hutton in FADE OUT, FADE IN

David Bowie in THE ELEPHANT MAN

Richard Burton in EQUUS

Mary Tyler Moore in WHOSE LIFE IS IT ANYHOW?

Stunt casting's always been part of the theater.

[myManCape]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:14am

I say it every time a stupid thread pops up bashing "stars" that most people haven’t even seen in the roles, I would rather every seat is sold to Usher fans than half a theatre full of Chicago fans. More people see a show for whatever reason and the show stays open.

Nothing has happened to Broadway, if producers weren’t in it for money there would only be 3 theatres running at any given time, the American Airlines, Studio 54 and the Biltmore. Instead there is a long waiting list of shows trying to get into the theatres that open up.

I’ve seen plenty of "Broadway" people the suck in their given roles, and I have yet to see a celebrity who is horribly bad. A lot of people on this board pass judgment before ever seeing the person. Case and Point: Haylee Duff, when she was announced everyone went bananas about how bad she'll be. Now that shes actually in the role a lot of people here, myself included have mixed feeling about her. She wasn’t amazing but she was no where near as bad as people made her sound. This Ashlee Simpson scenario is exactly the same, no one on this board, and no one anywhere in the world has ever seen her perform the role of Roxie so how can you pass judgment on her? Id be willing to bet that most people on this board have never seen her live in concert and never even listened to one of her CDs. All your judging her on is MTV and a SNL appearance. Wait and see, she might not take the role, she might suck and she might be surprisingly good.

Im not talking about people who actually go and see the performer and still think their bad. Your entitled to your opinion, but dont bash people that you’ve never seen. Go see Chicago, see Usher, see Haylee, see Wedding Singer then post your review dont say someone is running Broadway just because thier a movie star cast in a stage role.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:14am

I think Broadway has always been a mix of art, commerce and curiosity shop. Even 100 years ago.

Nothing is different now. Not even (valid) comments like these.

I'll use a frame of reference that most of you will know... "Ragtime" and Evelyn Nesbit's "Crime of the Century" number in the musical. The tabloid headlines and her pretty face made her famous, not her talent. She was widely known as "the girl on the red velvet swing" back in early 20th century.



This is no different that what you're seeing and talking about today.

So, if Broadway, "theatre as an art form" and show business are dying... it's certainly a very slow death.

Updated On: 8/27/06 at 11:14 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:15am

There wouldn't be theater if not for the tourist dollar. And the tourists want to have at least some clear idea of what they're getting for their $100 ticket, not to mention hotels, airfare, etc. A known quantity, whether it be a film/tv star or a musical made of a well-known movie, is what's needed to draw them in.

Unless you want the actors, crew, musicians, press agents, creatives, and office staff to work for free, this is a necessary evil.

[professor]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:29am

>>>>"Its not about the show and the talent anymore, but the money and the sex appeal"

I'll agree with what others have said, Broadway has always been about money and sex appeal. That's what commercial theatre is.

If someone is really interested in art, innovation, young unknowns getting their start, then off-broadway is where you should look. I just saw the glorious production on Seven Guitars that the Signature Theatre currently has running, and it's the best thing I've seen in a long time. And with tickets at only $15, it's clearly not about the money.

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:31am

Broadway *used* to be the pinnacle, the place where live theatre worked it's magic and was the shining beacon of what was considered legitimate theatre. Now it's been dumbed down in favor of the garbage that is today's American cultural icons; the Osbornes, all those losers from reality shows, and anyone in the top 10 pop charts for starters. What a shame that fans who "live for the theater" are being shunned and shoved out, in favor of those who have started their 15 minutes of fame, but aren't worth 10 seconds of it. Say what you want about Eric McCormick, Christina Applegate and so on...but they will NEVER be to theatre what Merle Louise, Patti Lupone or George Rose, bless his soul, were and continue to be.

Broadway can be a show *business* and yet not offend or exile those who love it and who have supported it for all the right reasons. Right now it's all about $$ and the demographics. The only reason people are coming to see Usher is so his massive fan base can get within 40 feet of him, live. Huge untouched demographic of r-n-b fans now coming in. Same for Ashley Simpson fans when the time comes and anyone else who has never set foot on a stage before. Stunt casting brings in the fans of whomever the "leads du jour" are, but it's highly doubtful these people will return because they aren't theatre fans, or else they'd already be here, seeing shows.

What gets me the most is that none of these people have "paid their dues". None of them have worked their way up the food chain to earn their place on that stage. That's the real crime.

In short? I guess the mainstream American wouldn't know good theatre if it bit him on the rear end. What a shame they need a name to draw them to a house instead of just wanting to adopt and accept the art form as it is.

[GClef2]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:42am

When recording stars were actually TALENTED, their talent was showcased in broadway shows. Today, with studio tricks, even ashley simpson can sound mediocre. But not live. Look at Lee Remick, a huge screen star, was great in (the ill fated) Anyone Can Whistle. She could actually sing.

I must say that although haylie duff my not be the best singer or actress, she fits the role and it is NOT the headlining part. I have seen ashley simpson live and, aside from being flat and shouty (sadly, her trade marks), she was not very charismatic, which can sometimes save a dull performer.

I totally agree with the statement about not knowing the performers in a show, but just enjoying it.

[Beowulf]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:46am

Thank you PitPro2004. Everyone else has missed the point. Broadway IS about money, thats the problem. I dont care one second about someones fanbase. Usher can dance up there all he wants, and he can do a great job. If he does, then thats great. I applaud him. What my point is, is the people that do work to reach the top, don't get the oppertunity to hit broadway. It is rediculous when all people want is that famous person on stage. It's also sad how many of you people that have posted up, are agreeing that its not about theatre but money, and thats how you like it. It's because of people like you, that this crap goes on. I want to see a quality show, supurb acting, pitch perfect singing, and flawless smooth emotional dancing. I dont care who is doing it. So when producers cast people because of the single fact that they are famous, it makes me angry.

"I have yet to see a celebrity who is horribly bad." -myManCape

That is the worst quote I have ever seen in my life. The better question is, have you ever seen a celebrity do mediocre? Then why were they in the part? Because they are a celebrity. I say that no matter how big your fanbase is, you have to audition, and you have to be found the best for the part. Not the one that will bring in the most money because of your name. If your theatre/show has to resort to that, then maybe your show needs some sort of change, not celebrity.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:52am

That's why there's off-Broadway. And off-off-Broadway. And so on.

I agree, it is a business, but it's sad. Unfortunately it costs so much to mount a show that producers need a guarantee. Nothing in this business is guaranteed - but some things see more worthwhile - bubble gum vs. tragedy.

What disappoints me the most is that not only is Ashlee Simpson not talented but, like Haylie Duff, she is riding off of her sister's fame. I wouldn't mind so much of another actor who has made the big time takes over, but at least let them have talent.

Who knows, Simpson could be good. I doubt it, though.

It just seems Broadway has become the place to "prove" yourself as an actor or to advance your resume.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 11:52am

Beowolf, perhaps you should try interning in a Broadway producing or general managing office and see exactly what goes into it, and how much money it takes to run a show.

Or better yet, try producing one yourself. Try to get investors to pony up the millions it will take to open it and keep it running.

[xM3L24x]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 12:00pm

I understand that broadway has to make money to profit and what not..but I just think it's sad that people need to see a big name to go to a broadway show. Especially when there are probably so many talented undiscovered actors out there.

//edited for spelling Updated On: 8/27/06 at 12:00 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 12:01pm

"Broadway *used* to be the pinnacle, the place where live theatre worked it's magic and was the shining beacon of what was considered legitimate theatre."

It still is... with shows like Doubt and performances like Chritine Ebersole's in the forthcoming "Grey Gardens."

And these "artistic achievements" will play right next to the modern equivalent of the bearded lady and the muscle man at the circus. And that's how it's always been, too.

I think if you researched it a bit, you wouldn't feel so much like you're discovering the "death of Broadway" right now.

Uneducated eyes seem to play "coroner" every year... as if this is something new.

You're singing a very old "swan song."

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 12:45pm

The vast majority of people who see theatre in NYC do NOT need a big name in a show to go see it. That's where you're wrong, beowulf. Your contention that it should only people who 'work to reach the top' who are cast on Broadway is silly. Who's going to determine exactly what that 'work' entails? Do you honestly think that every actor on a Broadway stage these days, and I'm not talking about the big names, actually worked to 'reach the top' in the same way? They absolutely did not, so who's to decide which is the correct way to 'reach the top'? Do we start requiring a BFA before someone's cast? two years in regional theatre? 18 months of a non-Eq tour? What are the parameters going to be? And who's to determine them, you?

The people you're complaining about, those who are 'cast because they're famous' are probably less than 1 percent of the actors working on Broadway at any given time. It's a negligible number and it's not taking away from any hard-working actors who should have had those roles; because two things are going to happen in these cases, the individuals who are already playing the roles get a paid vacation and a contract extension, a la Matt Caplan in Rent, or, the show closes and the entire cast and crew are out of a job until they find something new.

As I said in my initial post, this is nothing new and does not portend the death of Broadway.

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 1:00pm

"It still is... "

I am afraid I can't agree on this point, 12bars. Right or wrong, I have always felt that Broadways' death knoll has never been felt more than in the past 10 years, with the advance of the corporate renaming of theatres, the Disneyfication of the district, and the $200+ orchestra and front balcony seating. Granted that's only a part of it's demise, along with stunt casting, but then again, that's a whole different conversation.

Broadway could go back to being the epitomy of theatre, by first figuring out where all the audiences went. Back in the 70's-80's, audiences were so different and eager to see good theatre. I don't feel this is the case today. When I was in my teens, I saw A CHORUS LINE with no celebrity names in site, and it was sold out. 42nd STREET was incredible! "Jerry WHO?" He's wonderful! Law and Order wasn't around, and he was a theater god! I saw Bob Fosse's DANCIN from the mezz cause I couldn't get orch seats and that too, had no Christina Applegates or Brooke Shields in it. People came to see theater, period. Then again, the stars of those shows, were in fact, *Broadway* stars, made so by theater and not American Idol or American Bandstand for that matter. Scarcely one of them were a Nicole Kidman or Julia Roberts. Broadway didn't neccesarily need a name to fill a theatre back then, the way it does now.

Sadly, there is the flip side of this argument. People aren't coming to see a name, they are coming to see the show, but not the element. They aren't coming to see Ralph Fiennes' acting, they are coming to see flying chandeliers, flying witches, flying helicopters, flying cars and so on. If I want to see that, I'll go to a Disneyland theme park which is what they specialize in. I don't mind paying less prices for harmless fluffnstuff, glitz and special effects, but that element didn't need to come to NYC either. Legit theatre is not a dancing carpet in my worthless opinion.

Thank god good theatre is just about everywhere else at this point. Even if general audiences can't appreciate it anymore.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 1:02pm

From Joseph Mankiewicz's screenplay to ALL ABOUT EVE:

BILL
The Theatuh, the Theatuh-

(he sits up)

- what book of rules says the
Theater exists only within some
ugly buildings crowded into one
square mile of New York City? Or
London, Paris or Vienna?

(he gets up)

Listen, junior. And learn. Want to
know what the Theater is? A flea
circus. Also opera. Also rodeos,
carnivals, ballets, Indian tribal
dances, Punch and Judy, a one-man
band - all Theater.

Wherever there's magic and make-believe
and an audience - there's Theater.
Donald Duck, Ibsen, and The Lone
Ranger, Sarah Bernhardt, Poodles
Hanneford, Lunt and Fontanne, Betty
Grable, Rex and Wild, and Eleanora
Duse. You don't understand them
all, you don't like them all, why
should you? The Theater's for
everybody - you included, but not
exclusively - so don't approve or
disapprove. It may not be your
Theater, but it's Theater for
somebody, somewhere.

Updated On: 8/27/06 at 01:02 PM

[leefowler]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 1:17pm

Pal Joey,

Wow thanks, what an amazing quote. More proof that the "good old days" never existed. On this rainy afternoon in New York City, maybe it's a good time to watch All About Eve again...

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 2:12pm

"Pal Joey,

Wow thanks, what an amazing quote. More proof that the "good old days" never existed. On this rainy afternoon in New York City, maybe it's a good time to watch All About Eve again... "

Funny how you used a quote *from the good ol days* to support your point. You just stuck your foot in your mouth.

Hope you had your raspberry flavored shoes on . ;D

[Beowulf]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 2:37pm

First and foremost, Bravo PitPro, secondly, most of you guys are missing the point still. I know that broadway takes money, but its no longer about talent. No one seemes to care if someone has talent or not, only if they have a big name. The name of "Broadway" has been soiled to the point that its not about theatre. You all know as well as I do that everyone will watch shows on broadway, there will always be a crowd, and productions will die out. Theatre is about the next new thing. New actors, new songs, new productions. Its not about faces. My point in saying that its not about the actor that worked his way up, is the fact that people dont care about talent. People will go watch usher because it is usher, and if you support that then you are part of the problem killing broadway today. When broadway started, no one cared who it was, just if they had talent.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 8/27/06 at 2:41pm

In the time period to which you're referring, radio hit songs (pop) included songs from Broadway scores. Broadway stars were stars just from being in the theater - they toured and people knew who they were from seeing them in their own hometown theaters. Today, the stars come from TV/film/music. It's a different era.

If you want to go back to that time, you'll have to give up a lot of what you have now.