When and why did overtures go out of style?- Page 2

[James885]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 9:20pm

These days many creative teams would rather jump right into the action of the show immediately. When Light In The Piazza was running, I remember an interview with Bartlett Sher where he explained why they didn't use the full length overture heard on the cast recording in the theater. He said something along the lines of how he didn't want audiences to just sit and stare at a bare stage for five minutes.

Updated On: 9/27/14 at 09:20 PM

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 9:32pm

Whizzer, that is very true and Jerry Herman was a master at this by adding the songs that were supposed to be hits into a collage of songs for his finales. Of course, Herman songs are wonderful so it is an added bonus for audience members to get to hear those songs again.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 9:51pm

I've been listening to a lot of OBR recordings from the 50s and 60s lately and the overture is often a highlight. CANDIDE? Sublime, ranking with the best classical music. The afore-mentioned THE MUSIC MAN? As thrilling as a live band concert can be. Even lesser known works such as THE GRASS HARP have truly exciting overtures. (Even though I admit I'm not in general a fan of instrumental music.)

I think audience taste and attention spans are the least of it. To a large extent, theater creators can train an audience. But when so few shows have significant overtures, it's no wonder the audience thinks the instrumental prelude merely signals "last chance to check your cell phone".

In addition to Whizzer's and Darque's excellent points, I think the rise of the producer-director and/or director-choreographer as the creative team member with the most "muscle" has been a key factor. If you think of the visual as the most important element in a show, it's no wonder you think an overture (see reference to Barlett Sher) is a waste of an audience's time.

Hell, even though A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC's sung overture was a delightful novelty, Prince still demanded a SECOND overture, the "Night Waltz". So the show got two overtures and the producer-director and his choreographer got their visual sequence.

On a lesser note, the tendency to push the orchestra under the stage and out of sight means an overture is just disembodied sound. Think of MAN OF LA MANCHA or A CHORUS LINE or FOLLIES. You could write longer overtures, but since no one can see the conductor, much less the players, it really would be a case of staring at a blank curtain or an empty stage.

[ShakinBaconGirl]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:10pm

My all time favorite overture: http://youtu.be/Z10QzWThG_0

[morosco]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:19pm

My all time favorite overture.
The Original Production

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:21pm

I really like the entr'acte from Beauty and the Beast.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:24pm

I've always been partial to the overture for CHICAGO


link

[ShakinBaconGirl]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:28pm

Can't forget this classic: http://youtu.be/ORO4UMXIDbk?list=PLcFSUszociE2S3q3n5CyR3clUkFToQ-2L

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:31pm

If we're voting, I think it's hard to beat CANDIDE or GYPSY.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:37pm

Well, shows like GYPSY, CANDIDE, WEST SIDE STORY, THE KING AND I, and SOUTH PACIFIC are famous for their overtures so we might just want to get them out of the way before we go into the other ones.

Updated On: 9/27/14 at 10:37 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:39pm

Any Jule Styne Overture
Any Charles Strouse Overture
Lil Abner
High Spirits
I Had A Ball

[ShakinBaconGirl]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:42pm

I must admit, I have always loved Wicked's little overture ( is it an overture?). I remember the first time I heard it in the theatre and fell in love with it.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:43pm

Neglected to mention any Jerry Herman score.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 10:54pm

SBG, if the whole show of WICKED were as good as its opening notes the show would be pretty spectacular.
I too love every single Jerry Herman overture as well as every R&H and Jules Styne overture. I also recently fell in love with the LITTLE MARY SUNSHINE overture (thanks After Eight!).

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 11:06pm

I actually prefer West Side Story without the overture, and just the quick downbeat of the orchestra crashing with the Cool theme. It sets the mood of the show nicely, And while short the written for Legally Blonde was great to.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 11:08pm

Wait, you don't like the WSS prologue? That's extremely important and the show can not be performed without it.

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 11:10pm

The overture and prologue are two different works. The earlier is rarely ever used, but it does exist.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/27/14 at 11:14pm

Oh, I guess I've ever never heard the WSS overture or I just don't remember it. The cast album I own doesn't have the overture on it.

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:00am

Some of the most recent examples of new shows with overtures:
Beautiful
Big Fish
If/Then
Matilda

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:11am

They just didn't make the transition when musicals were "modernized" in the late '60s. I guess they were considered too old fashioned. I personally love love love them. The arrangements are so wonderful on so many of them, and they give the songs a chance to shine gloriously.

[degrassifan]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:17am

I agree that the Legally Blonde overture, whilst short, is pretty awesome!

Overtures and Entr'Actes are amazing, and it is sad they aren't common anymore.

[Lon Chaney]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:22am

I think the Oklahoma! overture is my favorite. That opening trill leading into the violins and woodwinds playing those 16th-note runs gets me every single time. I still don't understand why they changed it completely for the movie.

[Lon Chaney]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:27am

I remember hearing somewhere that Bernstein cringed when he attended some performance of either the film or a live revival of West Side Story that used the overture. I never really saw the point of an overture for West Side Story. The prologue is about 7 minutes of orchestral music (with the phenomenal dancing of course), is there really a need for a five minute overture on top of that?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:39am

TOMMY has an overture, and it is epic and one of my favorites, but it's particularly hard to think of examples of overtures from rock-based scores

Jesus Christ Superstar has one, and I think of that as a pretty rock-based musical. Granted, it's basically "Trial Before Pilate" without any lyrics.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 1:30am

MATILDA doesn't really count as an overture. It's basically a 40 second prelude. Similar to what is used in Next to Normal and If/Then.