#51
Posted: 4/23/14 at 11:35am
Broadway610004-I was about to point that out.
Why I believe that Audra McDonald belongs in Lead Actress ina Musical category — Page 3
#52
Posted: 4/23/14 at 12:34pm
The Tony Award committee does what they want. They are not afraid to go against the other nominating committees.
#53
Posted: 4/23/14 at 12:48pm
I find it amusing when people criticize posters on a Broadway discussion board for speculating on category placement and potential award nominations in the midst of awards season. What else should we be discussing at this time of year? How things are going for the Emerald City company of the Wicked tour?
#54
Posted: 4/23/14 at 12:56pm
"Henrik-I think referring to a "collective interest" is bizarrely at odds with the essence of the process. How can something be in the collective interest of people who are competing against one another?"
Hogan, I should have said it differently. Of course there are partisan interests in competitions. What I meant was what would seem collectively of interest to the committee, the industry and the voters at large, to those without a personal stake in the outcome who have some relative degree of typical impartiality - but who are still interested in general motives like spreading the wealth, honoring those seen as overdue, all the usual political considerations that go into whom it would be a popular choice to award because it's his or her turn (as opposed to she's in my show, she's me, he's my husband, he's my best friend, etc.).
***
An argument could be made that Lady Day is more a play with music than Piiaf (for which Jane Lapotaire won a tony as best lead in a play) is.
Lady Day is a dramatization of a night club act. The songs and dialogue all occur in the course of that act in real time. In contrast, the action of Piaf takes place over many years with with performances of songs commenting on the action. In this respect, Piaf is a little bit like Chicago, except the songs are all performed by the single central character.
But again, this doesn't mean that Lady Day couldn't be correctly categorized as a musical. It could, as I said, go either way.
Nor does it mean that Piaf couldn't be legitimately considered a play with music. This is all semantics.
Hogan, I should have said it differently. Of course there are partisan interests in competitions. What I meant was what would seem collectively of interest to the committee, the industry and the voters at large, to those without a personal stake in the outcome who have some relative degree of typical impartiality - but who are still interested in general motives like spreading the wealth, honoring those seen as overdue, all the usual political considerations that go into whom it would be a popular choice to award because it's his or her turn (as opposed to she's in my show, she's me, he's my husband, he's my best friend, etc.).
***
An argument could be made that Lady Day is more a play with music than Piiaf (for which Jane Lapotaire won a tony as best lead in a play) is.
Lady Day is a dramatization of a night club act. The songs and dialogue all occur in the course of that act in real time. In contrast, the action of Piaf takes place over many years with with performances of songs commenting on the action. In this respect, Piaf is a little bit like Chicago, except the songs are all performed by the single central character.
But again, this doesn't mean that Lady Day couldn't be correctly categorized as a musical. It could, as I said, go either way.
Nor does it mean that Piaf couldn't be legitimately considered a play with music. This is all semantics.
Updated On: 4/23/14 at 12:56 PM
#55
Posted: 4/23/14 at 1:56pm
"...what would seem collectively of interest to the committee, the industry and the voters at large, to those without a personal stake in the outcome who have some relative degree of typical impartiality..."
this incorrectly assumes that the admin committee is impartial, which it is not. That's the thing about the Tonys-it is controlled by the same people who have something at stake to a far greater degree than any other awards. Some have none, some have some but only the Tonys have a lot.
this incorrectly assumes that the admin committee is impartial, which it is not. That's the thing about the Tonys-it is controlled by the same people who have something at stake to a far greater degree than any other awards. Some have none, some have some but only the Tonys have a lot.
#56
Posted: 4/23/14 at 2:14pm
Hogans, you just said it. Some have none. It's the combination of those with none with those with various interests that lead to a sum consensus which gets reflected in who gets nominated, who wins, as well as placement decisions.
I don't think we are disagreeing with each other other than on semantics.
I don't think we are disagreeing with each other other than on semantics.
#57
Posted: 4/23/14 at 3:20pm
I'm sorry if this question has already been answered elsewhere, but why will Lady Day be a revival (regardless of being a play or a musical)?
#58
Posted: 4/23/14 at 3:54pm
It will fall under the "Classics" rule. The link is broken on the Tony website right now, or I'd copy and paste the actual rule. It is also why HEDWIG will be a revival.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#59
Posted: 4/23/14 at 4:11pm
^and Cripple of Inishmaan.
To paraphrase, a show which has had a previous life off-Broadway (in the global sense) with some significant interruption between its premiere production and the first Broadway one, or perhaps without any interruption if the work had been continually played somewhere for years (imagine the Broadway premiere of The Fantasticks while it was in its 30th year downtown, our The Mousetrap during its 30th year in London) will not be considered a new work. This didn't used to be the case. And so, for instance, in 1977 Happy End, a musical starring Christopher Lloyd, Grayson Hall and Meryl Streep, was nominated for best musical, book and score even though it had premiered in Berlin in 1929, had been produced in Europe several times in the last half century, and some of its songs - Surabaya Johnny, Bilbao Song - had been well known for decades.
To paraphrase, a show which has had a previous life off-Broadway (in the global sense) with some significant interruption between its premiere production and the first Broadway one, or perhaps without any interruption if the work had been continually played somewhere for years (imagine the Broadway premiere of The Fantasticks while it was in its 30th year downtown, our The Mousetrap during its 30th year in London) will not be considered a new work. This didn't used to be the case. And so, for instance, in 1977 Happy End, a musical starring Christopher Lloyd, Grayson Hall and Meryl Streep, was nominated for best musical, book and score even though it had premiered in Berlin in 1929, had been produced in Europe several times in the last half century, and some of its songs - Surabaya Johnny, Bilbao Song - had been well known for decades.
#60
Posted: 4/23/14 at 5:33pm
henrik-I am always happy when people can agree but I am not sure if it is just semantics. When I say "some" I am referring to other awards, not to the Tonys.
#61
Posted: 4/23/14 at 5:38pm
I so so hope Cherry Jones wins. I cannot even find the words for her Amanda. Audra is something special, but I find the craft much more magical in what Cherry did.
#62
Posted: 4/23/14 at 6:04pm
I saw a different production of Lady Day at Emerson's Bar & Grill years ago - I felt that it was a play with music, but the lead actress belonged in the MUSICAL category in that particular city's awards (she was nominated in the musical category; forgive me, it was more than 10 years ago and I can't remember her name).
Piaf has always been nominated in the musical category at the Olivier awards (Elena Roger won for her performance a few years ago), yet Jane Lapotaire won in the play category here (just saw the 1981 Tony awards on YouTube; that was my first ever Tonys, when I was 10 years old!) (: It feels somewhat similar.
I can see this going either way but due to the OCC nomination I think she will be in the musical category, which is a 5 way pile up of potential winners with her in the category imo!
Piaf has always been nominated in the musical category at the Olivier awards (Elena Roger won for her performance a few years ago), yet Jane Lapotaire won in the play category here (just saw the 1981 Tony awards on YouTube; that was my first ever Tonys, when I was 10 years old!) (: It feels somewhat similar.
I can see this going either way but due to the OCC nomination I think she will be in the musical category, which is a 5 way pile up of potential winners with her in the category imo!
#63
Posted: 4/23/14 at 6:37pm
Don't look to the OCC for ANYTHING as precedence as far as the Tony awards go, they rarely ever lineup.
#64
Posted: 4/23/14 at 6:51pm
Do the producers have any input, like they do with the lead vs. featured petitioning? Or is the play vs. musical delineation being decided by the nominating committee alone?
(Have any producers run ads saying either MUSICAL or PLAY?
(Have any producers run ads saying either MUSICAL or PLAY?
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#65
Posted: 4/23/14 at 6:57pm
producers register the show as one or the other, but the admin committee (nom committee is not involved) can do as the see fit.
#66
Posted: 4/23/14 at 7:08pm
Reading all the discussions about Cherry vs. Audra, I have to say that having seen both, I don't know how you can pick one as the best. Actually, talking to my partner after seeing LADY DAY, one of our conversations mainly revolved about how those two specific performances are perfect examples of how ridiculous is the idea of choosing a "best of" (mind you, I'm a sucker for awards and make a huge deal about them each year, so I'm not throwing stones). Jones was perfection, but so is Audra; what Audra does with her body and her voice are things that theatre legends are made of. I mean, how hard is it to sing using someone else's voice entirely? One image I'll never forget is seeing Audra's back in LADY DAY, the way she moved the bones in her back towards the end of the show was just so character-specific, so committed. Similarly, Cherry gave a sublime, unforgettable performance. I really can't say I think one was better than the other.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#67
Posted: 4/23/14 at 8:11pm
^beautifully said!
#68
Posted: 4/23/14 at 8:23pm
Audra has already won five Tony awards, all of them deserved. I think that she has a generosity of spirit that would have her gladly stand aside and let someone else win.
Kelli O'Hara has four nominations without a win. She deserved to win in 2008 for South Pacific, but Patti Lupone, who had been nominated twice without winning, although in both cases (Anthing Goes and Sweeney Todd) she probably deserved to win, the award went elsewhere. So, in 2008, nominated for Gypsy, she won what some called a "make up" award. This year I really believe that Kelli O'Hara is going to win the "make up" award even if she faces Audra. Remember, it has only been a year since Audra won for Porgy and Bess.
Is anyone else unhappy that Audra spent so many of her prime vocal years appearing on some dopey network medical drama series that borrowed heavily from the dozen network medical series that came before? Well, it's her life.
Kelli O'Hara has four nominations without a win. She deserved to win in 2008 for South Pacific, but Patti Lupone, who had been nominated twice without winning, although in both cases (Anthing Goes and Sweeney Todd) she probably deserved to win, the award went elsewhere. So, in 2008, nominated for Gypsy, she won what some called a "make up" award. This year I really believe that Kelli O'Hara is going to win the "make up" award even if she faces Audra. Remember, it has only been a year since Audra won for Porgy and Bess.
Is anyone else unhappy that Audra spent so many of her prime vocal years appearing on some dopey network medical drama series that borrowed heavily from the dozen network medical series that came before? Well, it's her life.
Updated On: 4/23/14 at 08:23 PM
#69
Posted: 4/23/14 at 9:17pm
I adore Kelli, but not once have I ever felt as though she was the best in any given category she found herself nominated in. She is to the Tonys what Amy Adams is to the Oscars.
And LuPone's victory in 2008 was inevitable, and not necessarily a make up for past losses to this theatre goer.
And LuPone's victory in 2008 was inevitable, and not necessarily a make up for past losses to this theatre goer.
#70
Posted: 4/23/14 at 9:19pm
I feel like there are so many incredible performances this year. I'd be thrilled to have Audra win Tony #6.
It seems to be a year with no clear frontrunner. I'm loving it.
It seems to be a year with no clear frontrunner. I'm loving it.
I like your imperturbable perspicacity.
#71
Posted: 4/23/14 at 9:29pm
Actress in a Musical - Ties in Tony History
Actress in a Musical 1958 - Gwen Verdon, New Girl in Town and Thelma Ritter, New Girl in Town
Actress in a Musical 1962 - Anna Maria Alberghetti, Carnival! and Diahann Carroll, No Strings
Actress in a Musical 1968 - Leslie Uggams, Hallelujah, Baby and Patricia Routledge, Darling of the Day
Actress in a Musical 2014 - Audra McDonald, Lady Day at Emerson's Bar and Grill and Kelli O'Hara, The Bridges of Madison County (fingers crossed)
Actress in a Musical 1958 - Gwen Verdon, New Girl in Town and Thelma Ritter, New Girl in Town
Actress in a Musical 1962 - Anna Maria Alberghetti, Carnival! and Diahann Carroll, No Strings
Actress in a Musical 1968 - Leslie Uggams, Hallelujah, Baby and Patricia Routledge, Darling of the Day
Actress in a Musical 2014 - Audra McDonald, Lady Day at Emerson's Bar and Grill and Kelli O'Hara, The Bridges of Madison County (fingers crossed)
Updated On: 4/24/14 at 09:29 PM
#72
Posted: 4/23/14 at 10:09pm
Step aside and ALLOW someone else to win? Really?
In many ways, I find that to actually be rather arrogant. "I'm so wonderful, that no one has a chance if I stay in." An what an awful way TO win. Then you'd never know if you were deserving. (Although, in most cases, many of the nominees are "worthy".)
In many ways, I find that to actually be rather arrogant. "I'm so wonderful, that no one has a chance if I stay in." An what an awful way TO win. Then you'd never know if you were deserving. (Although, in most cases, many of the nominees are "worthy".)
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#73
Posted: 4/23/14 at 10:44pm
Is anyone else unhappy that Audra spent so many of her prime vocal years appearing on some dopey network medical drama series that borrowed heavily from the dozen network medical series that came before? Well, it's her life.
I hope it cheers you to hear that she left PRIVATE PRACTICE a couple of years before the series was finally cancelled. And even when she was on the show, they seemed to let her out to do other things. Only in one year (2010) did she do a full year's worth of shows. Other years, she did about a dozen episodes or so, even when she was credited in other weeks. (All this is per IMDB.)
I'm sure she and her family agree it was all worth it as they gather on her estate in Connecticut (or wherever she lives).
I hope it cheers you to hear that she left PRIVATE PRACTICE a couple of years before the series was finally cancelled. And even when she was on the show, they seemed to let her out to do other things. Only in one year (2010) did she do a full year's worth of shows. Other years, she did about a dozen episodes or so, even when she was credited in other weeks. (All this is per IMDB.)
I'm sure she and her family agree it was all worth it as they gather on her estate in Connecticut (or wherever she lives).
#74
Posted: 4/24/14 at 1:23am
I've heard her in an interview say that she really enjoyed being part of her TV family. And, although doing a weekly TV series is a lot of early mornings and long hours, it still must be easier than carrying a Broadway show eight times a week.
She missed a few weeks of Porgy and Bess due to illness or voice strain.
It is selfish, I suppose, but she has an extraordinary gift and you can't stream a Broadway show to your TV with Amazon or Netflix, even if that experience were anything like the live show.
She missed a few weeks of Porgy and Bess due to illness or voice strain.
It is selfish, I suppose, but she has an extraordinary gift and you can't stream a Broadway show to your TV with Amazon or Netflix, even if that experience were anything like the live show.
#75
"Aside from End of the Rainbow, the most obvious comparison piece to LADY DAY is probably Pam Gem's PIAF-- but even there, it's catagory has been debated. It was deemed a play with music during it's first Broadway production and a musical in its last Lomdon revival. "
One can add Pam Gems's Marlene to this group. It was deemed a musical for the Tony Awards.
"Actress in a Musical -Ties in Tony History "
Also 1968- Leslie Uggams (Hallelujah, Baby) and Patricia Routledge (Darling of the Day).
Posted: 4/24/14 at 4:27am
"Aside from End of the Rainbow, the most obvious comparison piece to LADY DAY is probably Pam Gem's PIAF-- but even there, it's catagory has been debated. It was deemed a play with music during it's first Broadway production and a musical in its last Lomdon revival. "
One can add Pam Gems's Marlene to this group. It was deemed a musical for the Tony Awards.
"Actress in a Musical -Ties in Tony History "
Also 1968- Leslie Uggams (Hallelujah, Baby) and Patricia Routledge (Darling of the Day).
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