Wicked: "Eh" or "Ick?"- Page 3

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 2:56pm

well at least someone agrees with me on something. :)

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 2:58pm

Er... Given that the whole of a musical pretty much hinges on music and lyrics and they are an integral part of the show, if I have an opinion on them then I think I can say I have an opinion on the show. I've never seen JEKYLL AND HYDE but I can still say that based on what I've heard on the albums it is a very powerful show. Similarly, I've never seen CYMBELINE but having read the script it is NOT one of Shakespeare's best.

One does not have to have seen the show to have an opinion. Productions are changeable. The music and lyrics (unless the show is rewritten as a new version) are not. So in fact the music and lyrics matter more in an opinion of a musical than experience of seeing the show. In my (wide) experience of theatre, a poor production can be saved by a good script/book/score/lyrics. Bad script/book/score/lyrics are seldom saved by a good production.

I fail to see why you have a problem with me basing my opinion on the CD, or why you react so offensively and sarcastically, especially when I've said if it comes to London I will walk into the show with an open mind. And I would request that you don't presume to tell me when I can and can't have an opinion.

What I will say is I'm very interested to see how the more pop-based material will work live (it is rather different to a lot of what we have had in the West End in recent years) and I hope I get the opportunity.

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 2:58pm

"Emutional, it's a defense mechanism. For months the response to every question on this board was 7:1 Wicked:Every Other Musical in History. To this day, the ratio is skewed, if not to the same extent. Banning Wicked responses is harsh, but it's also an encouragement for people to expand their horizons a tiny bit and put some thought into their answers instead of just reflexively bringing up their FAVRIT MOZIKAL EVR!!!1"

well, we all no how effective "no irish need apply" was. >_>

[Plum]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:02pm

Wha?

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:02pm

InTheMoney, sorry if i seem offensive. and being sarcastic is the only way i won't actually be hurt personally on this board.

Well, using myself for an example, the show is so much more incredible with the whole thing. i thought i knew it all when i saw it, and kristin had me holding my sides with the many lines i've never heard before. To me, the OBCR is good and the show is excellent. see what i'm trying to say?

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:04pm

"joeyjoe:

i'm just tired of seeing topics like "whats your favorite musical (can't be wicked!)"
or "favorite sad song (NOT DEFYING GRAVITY)"

btw, i don't think defying gravity is sad. ha.
"

To be fair, I can see a reason for banning DEFYING GRAVITY on that thread. It's not a sad song for a start. Listen to the lyrics and it is actually incredibly positive and self-assertive. So in that case banning the song as a response was justified.

But banning responses like that a)prevents us from hearing the same thing we've heard 75,000 times before (and prevents the WICKED/anti-WICKED rows from breaking out), and b)makes people actually think about their response for two reasons: i)if they aren't going to put down WICKED then it prompts them to think of other shows they've seen which widens up discussion on this board; ii)if they are going to say WICKED then they must be prepared for a challenge and be able to quantify their opinion. In both cases we get more varied and intelligent debate than just "Well I love WICKED and it's the best show ever and it just is and you aren't going to change my mind and you don't like WICKED so I hate you". Which is pretty much what happens 90% of the time.

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:07pm

Emutional, apology accepted. It was actually the suggestion that my opinion was invalid which provoked my response, as I'd taken pains to point out that I was aware my opinion may change on seeing the show.

(Example: I only saw CHITTY the first time cos Michael Ball was in it. Let's face it - the music isn't exactly amazing. But the show was absolutely stunning and I've seen it several times since when I only really intended to see it the once).

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:07pm

when Matt said Timmy was going to be a flying monkey, the story lost all credibility... there ARE NO FLYING MONKEYS IN WICKED...

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:09pm

see my above post on the banning of wicked responses. that's all i really have to say about it, i just don't think it's very right to ask for peoples opinions but say they can't say ___, which might happen to be their opinion. I guess it's understandable for certain cases, because defying gravity isn't a sad song so that prevente that, but wicked does qualify as a musical.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:09pm

I was very dissappointed with the production - maybe if I hadn't read the book first, I might have liked it more - but then again, I've never been a fan of Stephen Schwartz' music...so perhaps not. I was startled by it - I liked Idina's voice the night we saw it, but since then - with all the hype and all the threads about her gasping and bad performance on the Tonys, etc; I've begun to think that she wasn't as hot as I thought originally, and that I was just caught up in the moment. As I've stated a million times on here - if I go to the theatre to see a show about witches - I want FLYING...Which there is none of in Wicked, and it made me mad. I was just overall disappointed with the show and feel that it definitely is not a Broadway quality show, by any means. Also very stilted writing.

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:10pm

"when Matt said Timmy was going to be a flying monkey, the story lost all credibility... there ARE NO FLYING MONKEYS IN WICKED"

you're joking, right?

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:11pm

i saw BOUNCING monkeys, but they certainly didn't fly...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:11pm

It was ok. I had fun. But it did not leave a lasting impression. I enjoyed Avenue Q, Assassins, Caroline, and Bombay Dreams more. If Wicked had a stronger book and score, then maybe I would have more affection for the show. I must admit, Idina and Kristin were quite good.

"One does not have to have seen the show to have an opinion."

To have an opinion on a production, yes they do. To have an opinion on the score (or book, if you have a bootleg), then no, you don't have to see the show. A fine example is the "powerful" Jekyll and Hyde. Pre-Broadway, the show was pretty powerful, but the Broadway production was laughable.

Before seeing Wicked, I had an opinion of its score from the CD, but I did not have an opinion of the show as I had not seen it. How could I form my own opinion?

"Bad script/book/score/lyrics are seldom saved by a good production."

Have you ever seen Phantom of the Opera? Or Cats? Or The Lion King? Wicked does not have a strong book or score, but the spectacle is quite dazzling. Give the audience a spectacle and they will easily forgive the writing. It's rare that the reverse is true, such as the case with Caroline, or Change.

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:12pm

"Wicked does not have a strong book or score, but the spectacle is quite dazzling. Give the audience a spectacle and they will easily forgive the writing."

how true, how sadly true...

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:13pm

they flew around over the audience. if you see it again and ur in the orchestra, look up

[Plum]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:14pm

Well, give me a good spectable and I wouldn't "forgive" the writing so much as ignore it. I'm very lingual- I find bad writing hard to simply overlook.

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:15pm

they fly out over the orchestra??? something must have changed since halloween...

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:17pm

joeyjoe i'll get you a picture if you give me a few minutes.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:20pm

Am I the only one who finds it extremely odd that Namo started this thread? I thought he hated Wicked threads....

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:23pm

Basically I started this thread to parody the Chorus Line: Great or "eh" thread which criticized my favorite musical of all time.

The responses to this thread have not failed to live up to what I expected. If the people who ruv Wicked so much can do so in spite of the very things even they list as being weak about it, then I am not so sure about the future of the Broadway musical fan base. Until you experience the excitement of a new work that you don't have to make excuses for, you may never know true devotion to the artform.

Updated On: 8/24/04 at 03:23 PM

[Emutional]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:27pm

"Basically I started this thread to parody the Chorus Line: Great or "eh" thread which criticized my favorite musical of all time."

it sucks to have a musical you love criticized, doesn't it.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:28pm

Yes - I was with joeyjoe on Halloween last year and at that time - there were no flying monkeys - they bounced on bungee cords and just sort of hung there...it was very dissappointing. But I could forgoe flying monkeys any day if Elphaba had at least sat on that frigging broom and took off over the audiences heads - now THAT might have impressed me. ( of course, then I would have fallen back to sleep...)

Updated On: 8/24/04 at 03:28 PM

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:29pm

or at least, off into the flies...

possums...

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:37pm

No Emu, it doesn't suck to have a musical I love criticized. I think when people are critical of productions of shows that were new 30 years ago that maybe they should consider that what they saw was maybe not the best representation. Since I saw every last member of the OBC of Wicked a couple of days after it opened, I have no doubt that the show I thought was pretty mediocre was the best it will ever be.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/24/04 at 3:37pm

I knew there was something behind it! I had already forgotten about the Chorus Line thread.

"If the people who ruv Wicked so much can do so in spite of the very things even they list as being weak about it, then I am not so sure about the future of the Broadway musical fan base."

Oh come on, Namo! The obsessive fan thing has been around since Cats and Phantom of the Opera. Nothing has changed but the shows. I love many weak shows for a variety of reasons and that's ok. Now, to fail to recognize artistic achievement is lamentable, but that is usually chalked up to inexperience. Wicked is the hot topic until the next hot show opens. You know that.