gypsy question

[alxscrz2]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 2:31am

Why does rose make fun of gypsy's strip during rose's turn ? Also what is the meaning behind rose's turn ?
-thanks

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 4:26am

I think you're asking this question like it has an absolute answer and any interpretation question relies a lot on opinions.
IMO, she mocks Gypsy's strip and June's act to sort of replicate their touch but with a difference. She does it in a more edgy, mocking, yet angry sort of way, which really connects to the line "why did I do it? what did it get me? scrapbooks full of me in the background" as well as the line "I made you!" Rose really is the brain behind their talent, she did make them, she just never realized that in making them stars she was simply going to be left behind because she isn't a star (which is such an amazing, neat irony since the actress playing Rose IS a star).
"Rose's Turn" is a break-down, it comes right at the perfect time, after the pivotal time between Louise and Rose. When Louise is no longer the Louise that Rose can manipulate, when Louise says "no kid does it on her own but I am not a kid anymore" Rose realizes that "momma has to let go," perhaps she doesn't get it but inside she knows what it means. She knows that her two kids are way gone, her two girls are women and neither one of them really needs them. "Rose's Turn" is as much an analysis of stage mothers as it is an amazing reading on motherhood altogether. It's a great way for Rose to really pour it all out, every feeling she's ever had about her daughters, her many years with Herbie, her past, what she thinks she has left... IMO, the beginning is a way for her to mock her daughters and to be the star in her head for once, the middle when she goes through all the "Mommas" she realizes all she has dealt with in life, the little it has paid off, how she has to let go, and the saddest part of the break-down which leads into the "Why did I do it?" part which to me is her showing that Louise is right in ironically saying "I thought you did it for me, Momma." Rose may have done it for her daughters, but she really did it for herself and now she finally gets that her time is gone and it is her daughters' turn not Rose's turn. Then the "someone tells me when is it my turn" part comes in and it is Rose's denial, she says "everything's coming up roses" again which is a hint at Rose's denial, she doesn't grasp the idea that everything in her life is falling apart. By the end it is just Rose trying to make her turn for herself but sadly failing at it (again the irony is that if a great actress is playing her part she is probably making the number of her lifetime by the end of this brilliantly written number).

[jeniferrenepatricia]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 5:29am

I agree with everything that Ray said. It's almost ironic because I am choreographing a community theater production of "Gypsy" and I just had a discussion with my director about this song tonight. I'm just curious what other people on the board think. My director feels that Rose is always talking about herself during "Rose's Turn," and I feel that the whole part of "Mama's talking loud, Mama's doin' fine, etc, etc. is indeed about Rose. We disagree about the part right after that when she says "mama...ma-ma-mama" then back into "Mama's got the stuff, Mama's gotta move...etc. into "mama...mama." The point is, I think when she calls out Mama, she is reaching out for her mother that left her, not speaking about herself. Almost like she still craves the attention a child should get from their mother, like she gave to Louise and June. AM I crazy? Does anyone else feel this way?

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 5:51am

Oh Jennifer sometimes I feel that way. I think that very much depends on the director (unless you have actual contact with Sondheim who basically put "Rose's Turn" together), the dramaturg--if there's one for the production--and the actress playing Rose.
If I were to play Rose I'd play it as if Rose is getting stuck on the word "Momma" both because she can barely speak because she is so overwhelmed by her realization that she has to let go AND because she is thinking of her own mother who abandoned her (perhaps she is overcompensating with her own daughters due to her mother's abandonment). I think your interpretation is completely valid though Jennifer.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 5:54am

The rejection by June, Louise, and Herbie equals the rejection she received from her parents. Once June and Louise push her away, she realizes that all she "did for them" (but really for herself) was for naught.

[jeniferrenepatricia]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 6:43am

That you, Ray. I know that it is up to the director and actress interpretation, but I asked because my director said that was completely out of the question. He feels that Rose is so self-absorbed that the song can be about no one else but herself. Although I am not a big fan of Bette Midler, I must say that when she sang that song, I DEFINITELY felt like she was calling out to her mother; as I did when the great LuPone sang it as well.

[chinto1984]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 5:14pm

This is one of the best solo numbers for a female lead--if not the best. There is so much depth in this character and it all hits the floor. IMO, it's called "Rose's Turn" because Rose gets her turn to be the star she always wanted to be, though she is just imagining it. She mocks her daughters' routines because she can do it better. Rose always wanted to perform and almost saying she is better than her daughters. As the monolouge develops, the consequences of Rose's decisions start to surface. Then that causes her to go from singing to "Mah Mah MAMA". I think that is the moment when she realizes, she was not the best mother. The monolouge changes from Rose being a star to an analysis of why she what she did. You could say she "turns" in her perception of her reality. This would be a great paper. This number, monolouge whatever you want to call it, has so much. This number has to be a collaboration with the director and actress. The choregrapher needs to know what direction to go in so he/she can create the staging of the number. There is a Youtube vid of Anrea McArdle in the role of Rose. It has Rose during "Rose's Turn" with ensemmble. I personally don't think it has the same impact when it is Rose alone on stage.

Posted: 8/10/07 at 7:07pm

i agree that the "ma-ma-ma"s hit when she remembers/realizes her own mother.
o think its the moment when the patterns of her life hit her & that propels her into the moment of insane abandon that ends the song.

[jv92]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 7:55pm

The "Mmm..mama" is when the mind cracks.
Updated On: 8/10/07 at 07:55 PM

[theaterkid1015]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 11:23pm

To me, the "ma...ma" is when she hears the echo of what she's saying. Think about it...she's in an empty theatre, screaming, "Mama's lettin' go." It's gonna echo back.

I think she mocks June/Louise because her intention at the beginning of the song is to start her own night club act and show the world that she's talented and amazing.

...I may or may not have worked on the beat changes in my room every night....

[ahmelie]

Posted: 8/10/07 at 11:43pm

I always looked at "M-m-momma" as Rose getting caught up in her words, in that verse she's lying to herself, when she stutters over it she can't think up another lie. I don't really think you could look upon that line as her realization, because she continues with the bullSH*T, ya know?

And when she mocks "Let Me Entertain You" I think she's mocking it because she made it up. She did make them. That's *her* line and she's going to say it.

[alxscrz2]

Posted: 8/11/07 at 2:35am

I think through out that whole song rose is tryin to not give in and admit to herself that she did it all for herself. And then at the end she finally gives in.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 8/11/07 at 3:19pm

These are some interesting thoughts on the meaning of "Rose's Turn". I am going to quote from the script:

"A lone spot picks up Rose as she moves down front.
Rose:"I thought you did it for me, Momma." "I thought you did it for me, Momma..." I thought you made a no-talent ox into a star because you like doing things the hard way, Momma.(Louder)And you HAVEN'T got any talent!--not what I call talent, Miss Gypsy Rose Lee! (Rose shouts defiantly) I made you!--and you wanna know why? You wanna know what I did it for?!(Louder)BECAUSE I WAS BORN TOO SOON AND STARTED TOO LATE, THAT'S WHY! With what I have in me, I could've been better than ANY OF YOU! What I got in me--What I been holding down inside of me--if I ever let it out, there wouldn't be signs big enough! There wouldn't be lights bright enough!(Shouting right out to everyone now)HERE SHE IS, BOYS! HERE SHE IS, WORLD! HERE'S ROSE!!"

Then she starts the song, alternately singing and speaking. The monologue just quoted shows how very angry and determined she is to prove that she IS a force to be reckoned with, and to hell with everyone else!

As the song continues, she sings:
"Momma's talkin' loud, Momma's doin' fine,Momma's gettin' hot,Momma's goin' strong,Momma's movin' on, Momma's all alone, Momma doesn't care, Momma's lettin' loose, Momma's got the stuff, Momma's lettin' go--(stopping dead as the words hit her) Momma--Momma's--(shaking off the mood) Momma's got the stuff, Momma's got to move, Momma's got to go--(Stopping dead again, trying to recover)Momma--Momma's--Momma's gotta let go! (Stops; after a moment she begins to pace)...Why did I do it? What did it get me?...ETC...Well, someone tell me, when is it my turn? Don't I get a dream for myself? Startin' now it's gonna be my turn! Gangway, world, Get offa my runway! Startin' now I bat a thousand. This time, boys, I'm takin' the bows, and Everything's coming up Rose--Everythings coming up Roses--Everything's coming up Roses This time for me! For me--for me--for me--for me--FOR ME!"

I think it is an interesting thought that she is invoking thoughts of her own mother when she keeps repeating the "Momma's", but I personally think that she is just losing her self control and the stage directions, in parenthesis, imply that.I feel that the number "Rose's Turn" is all about Rose and her need to be needed and reckoned with. At any rate, it is the 11 o'clock number to end all 11o'clock numbers. And I must say, writing all these quotes directly from the script make me want to see GYPSY all over again. Lucky you who saw Patti LuPone.

[YankeeMate]

Posted: 8/18/07 at 4:05am

What comes after the song is also important: Rose admits that she did do it for herself. That may be why she's stumbling when she tries to say Mama. Her choking on Mama is her realization that she was a horrible parent and now all she can hear is Gypsy's line in the dressing room "Mama, you've got to let go." With Herbie and June already gone, Gypsy was Rose's last chance at redemption. Now she's all alone on an empty stage with nothing to show for her life. As long as Gypsy was around, Rose could still cling to some claim of humanity but now she realizes she's just a monster.

[chinto1984]

Posted: 8/18/07 at 6:32pm

Anyone who has to do a theater paper, this is a good topic.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 8/19/07 at 2:25am

rose is saying that she could have beeen a star but she was born to soon and shes saying that if it wasn't for her there
wouldn't have been a gypsy rose lee thats why she breaks out in roses turn.