John Doyle's Concept- Page 2

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 11/27/06 at 8:41pm

I'd just really like to see if he could get together with a book writer and a composer and make something brand new while at the same time, applying what many consider his signature and what others (including myself) consider his gimmick.

[neddyfrank2]

Posted: 11/27/06 at 8:44pm

You guys are forgetting The Rink

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 11/27/06 at 9:00pm

I'd like to offer that John Doyle's direction has a lot more to it than just actors playing instruments.
==================

THANK YOU! I'm so sick of people acting like that's the only idea he has and looking right past the layers on layers of metaphor and subtext he uses in his direction.

And I could care less if it's played by ten actor/musicians, or twenty musician/musicians. The orchestrations are what makes it work. Sweeney never sounded better.

[purpleprince101]

Posted: 11/27/06 at 9:07pm

like someone said

Suessical would go nice with it
maybe
Once on this island? Just a thought

[ByMySide25]

Posted: 11/27/06 at 10:27pm

A Little Night Music? Really? Where'd you hear/read that? I see that working though. One of the characters already plays an instrument but I find the lush score benefits from a full orchestra.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 2:37am

I this concept would work for Ragtime.

Also he has done Cabaret in the past...in fact I think that was the one where it started.

Akiva

[DancerGirl16]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 9:53am

I just think that its going to become "typical" eventually when he does a few more shows. I think that people will stop being distracted by how impressing it is that the actors can sing and play sweeney at the smae time and start noticing more flaws. I just think that it shouldn't be done with every show. It is a great concept but he needs some new ideas also.

[Becoz_i_knew_you21]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 9:59am

I would like to see him direct a show without the actor/musicians concept.

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:21am

As a working musician and a member of the union, this concept sits uneasily with me, primarily because it takes away work from us. While there are certainly many multi-talented people out there (Donna Lynne Champlin is an EXCELLENT classically-trained flutist, for example; I myself have sung roles in about a dozen shows in my life in addition to being a Juilliard-trained classical musician), but besides the personal issue of the work not being there for the full-time hardworking musicians in this town (where it's hard ENOUGH to get a good gig), I also know how difficult it is just to concentrate on playing your instrument properly; I really think that this concept spreads the people on stage entirely too thin.

It's very difficult to remain completely true to your character and in the moment and in top voice when you're thinking "Jesus, I hope my reed hasn't dried out from sitting there for 15 minutes while I sang my song; I hope I don't crack that high D; I hope my string doesn't break/unwind; Is my bow tight enough?; did I warm up my clarinet enough earlier?; will the stage lights heat up my flute too much to play in tune?; should I have pulled my headjoint out further before I played that?", and on and on. Musicians are CONSTANTLY thinking about things like this, and playing your instrument to its full potential, PARTICULARLY in music as demanding as the scores Stephen Sondheim has written, requires your full concentration and I'm sorry, but you just cannot do that when you're also trying to play a character and sing a song with 10,000 lyrics in 35 seconds.

Just doesn't work for me, sorry. I totally understand that some people dig it and think it's great; that's wonderful. I personally just can't stand it.

And yes, he'd better get a new gimmick soon. This is getting very one-note. He's boring Nina.

[folkyboy]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:25am

i'm with ya Jailyard. it's totally another way to f--k the musician union out of a gig

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:26am

Oh, God.

Jailyard, did you even see COMPANY?

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:26am

Thank you, Jaily. I have made the same point several times on similar threads, but it certainly has a lot more impact coming from someone with the actual experience.

I knew from the first two minutes into SWEENEY that I was resenting the concept - resenting the actors' focus being split. Split my ticket price then!

Updated On: 11/28/06 at 10:26 AM

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:31am

Yes, and I am still trying to get that saxophone cacophon...er, trio out of my aural memory.

And that Raul, boy, what a virtuoso pianist. :-P

Sorry, but when I pay top dollar to see a show, I want top-dollar pro musicians playing one of the best scores ever written.

Updated On: 11/28/06 at 10:31 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:36am

And top-dollar actors ACTING.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:42am

Well, I agree with you on Raul.

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:43am

Amen, Sapphic sister.

But, I'm sure we're in the minority on this...most people seem to think it's cool and are very impressed by it, and by and large they should be. It DOES take a great deal of talent to do this, I just really think it would be an idea better at home Off-Broadway or in regional theater than on Broadway.

(And, the nature of what I do and my training being what it is, I can't help but constantly analyze the performance and compare it to others, which may not be fair to the actor-dancer-singer-musicians in question, but it is what it is. The performances, for me, simply do not measure up to fully dedicated musicians and actors each doing their job SEPERATELY and giving it their full focus. I'm not saying it's HORRIBLE, I'm just saying it's not what I consider Great White Way quality.)

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree with most people, Rathy, baby.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 10:45am

Yeah, well, what else is new?

[kidmanboy]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 11:24am

To play devil's advocate yet again, I don't think Doyle thinks it is "cool" to have actors be the musicians. While the original concept may have come out of financial necessity, I believe his current shows use the actors/musicians to emphasize the characters musicality and bring the score literally into the show, thereby truly using the music to its full emotional and storytelling potential. To me, the music in these productions doesn't come from talent or technique, it comes from the soul...from emotion and necessity to communicate a feeling.

[TinyDancer]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 12:04pm

I am a member of 802 and while i understand completely the argument for the suffering of us members of 802 who aren't actor/singers and therefore can't participate in productions such as Doyle's, as far as the union itself getting shafted it's just not even remotely true. 802 makes out so much better in doyle productions than any other musical that would be produced in said theatre.

when the (mostly AEA) actor/musicians in SWEENEY joined the union of 802, like it or not- they BECAME PAYING MEMBERS of that union. and since the eugene oneill's minimum of musos in the pit for a musical there is 8, and including covers there were over 16 card carrying 802 members in that house for that SWEENEY run, the 802 union made literally twice what they would have normally, and to me that's a blatant win for 802.

as far as i know the place where 802 (and the actor/musos in sweeney) got shortchanged was the recording of the album. i believe they all received the traditional AEA one week's pay for the recording as opposed to the 4 times as much they would have been paid as session musos (including overtime, etc). So...honestly. if you want to talk about who really suffers MONETARILY with all this, it's the actor/musicians themselves. People believed they were all getting double salaries, and i know for a fact that wasn't the case. most of them were on minimum pay per week. granted 802 minimum considering all they were doing was higher than AEA pay, but still i believe the ones who got shafted money wise ultimately were the actors and 802 let THEM down.

where was 802 when their members were in the recording studio for 12 hours with no overtime? why do people continue to treat these actor/musicians who are BONAFIDE members of 802, like 'fake' members? like it or not, they were/are dues paying members so no one is taking any work 'away' from anyone in the union.

i think more particularily the argument you're trying to make as to who's getting the shaft are current 802 members who aren't actor/singers. But you can't logically say the union itself is getting the shaft when they are making double the amount in dues and pay when these actor/musicians join the union and do these Doyle shows. if anything 802 is the one group that really benefits from this whole concept.

just my two cents

tinydancer

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 12:25pm

No, I didn't mean the union itself. I am well aware that they must join the union, and the union makes out like a bandit.


I suppose if I were to lay it bare, I meant me and my friends/colleagues, who certainly play the saxophone a hell of a lot better than those ladies in Company and the clarinet better than Miss Thing in Sweeney, and could have made some nice money doing those shows. My derision towards this concept is almost purely self-serving (with perhaps a bit of altruisitc leaning where it concerns my fellow musicians).

There. I admitted it.

[GYPSY1527]

Posted: 11/28/06 at 1:41pm

John Doyle's concept is unique and works in some situations for me. For example, I adored Sweeney Todd and felt the concept worked amazingly but I wasn't in love with Company and felt that it inhibited the show and music. I wouldn't want to see another John Doyle show for a while.