I've never understood Gypsy- Page 3

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 12/2/06 at 11:34pm

"Did I mention I hate Bernadette Peters? :)"

Your smile insulted all of us!

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 12/2/06 at 11:36pm

"Your smile insulted all of us!"

Agreed. And Joyce did it in Philly in 2005.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 12/2/06 at 11:37pm

Gee, and I was just about to post how refreshing it is to be on a board that doesn't trash each others opinions so much, but rather just talks about what they liked as a means of discussion.

[Junior]

Posted: 12/2/06 at 11:47pm

Ok. If you don't get Gypsy, I'm sorry. You're really missing out. But to each their own. As far as hating Bernadette goes... I can't even fathom how you could even THINK such a thing. UGH. This thread stresses me out......

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 12/2/06 at 11:55pm

I think its great that people can have different reactions to the same piece,/performer its what makes the world go round.

I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't recognize LITP as the incredible piece of art that I feel it is, but it obviously has it's detractors.

Not that I dont love Broadway's "golden age" I love me some My Fair Lady (Lerner's a genius in my book) along with just about everything Frank Loesser ever wrote, among other things.

Here's my question though, it's obvious that Rose hurts a lot of people throughout the course of the show, but it's also obvious that some of those people that she hurts still love her dearly (Tulsa, Louise, etc), so she must have some redeeming qualities, so can anyone argue for her? It's also obvious that Rose is an incredibly endearing character to some (and contrary to what someone said about Mrs Lovett, I would LOVE to have seen Lansbury in the role of Rose).

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 12:04am

Wait, do you mean LITP as in Light in the Piazza? Just about everyone here loves the show!

And you know that Rose was a real person right?

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 12:04am

Wait, do you mean LITP as in Light in the Piazza? Just about everyone here loves the show!

And you know that Rose was a real person right?

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 12:19am

Of course I know Rose was a real person, its one of the reasons that it fascinates me.

And I guess I figured everyone here hated LITP just as much as the ATC peeps seem to.

Does anyone know what happened to June? Didn't she end up writing a book later on or something?

Posted: 12/3/06 at 12:20am

i dont understand what your point is...you think that you have to like Rose to like the show?
i dont think you are meant to like Rose, & its up to the actress & director to decide how monsterous &/or sympathetic she is portrayed in that particular production.

(if i am incorrect, someone please let me know!)

that you, who claim to "not get" the show, to have put so much thought into it, proves that its a successful show.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 12:24am

You make an excellent point. I guess it's Russell's performance I'm reacting to, as I didn't feel that way about Bette Midler.

But you must admit its odd to have such a selfish lead role in a show.

But you're right, and I am trying to see what others see in Gypsy, because so many love the show, and its impossible to dismiss that.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 12:24am

June went onto a major film and stage career as June Havoc (she also later wrote a memoir or two and currently lives in Connecticut):

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0369896/

[rosekwbp]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 2:01am

June wrote two memoirs Early Havoc and More Havoc by June Havoc. Direclty after eloping she and the guy she eloped with became a dance team and particapted in dance marathons. She did have contact with Rose and Gypsy years later. Her books are really fascinating supplements to Gypsy.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 2:42am

"Gee, and I was just about to post how refreshing it is to be on a board that doesn't trash each others opinions so much, but rather just talks about what they liked as a means of discussion."

You haven't been here very long, or read many of the postings, have you.

I'm going to join the others in the bar....

Updated On: 12/3/06 at 02:42 AM

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 3:04am

I didn't know June was still alive! lol.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 3:16am

>As far as the overture goes, there are overtures that I feel are head and shoulders above Gypsy, She Loves Me being one of them.<

Now, I love She Loves Me, but it barely has anything that could be called an Overture. It's more of a prelude. Two candezas for accordian and violin, a couple of trumpet trills, a verse or two of "Perspective" and it goes right into "Good Morning, Good Day".

[allofmylife]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 3:21am

Before I go to join the others at the bar (which, interestingly enough is right across the street from the theater where Gypsy played) let me put in my three cents worth.

Firstly, Junior should be elevated from understudy to leading status just for the insightful comment.

I saw Merman perform Gypsy when I was about 7 years old. I don't remember the show that well but I certainly remember the overture (only the second I ever heard after "Camelot" on opening night in Toronto. My parents, who were in musical theater decided to throw me off the deep end - a trip to NYC). The first thing we saw was Gypsy late in Merman's run . I still remember her.

I spoke to my dad about the trip before Alzheimer's got him. He said the buzz that night began on the street outside the theater. All anyone could talk about was Merman. The lobby and into the auditorium, everyone knew they were seeing a classic performance and then that amazing overture. I remember that timpani roll and the trio of trumpets doing "I had a dream", the variations on the theme and the yearning of the vamp, then back into the main melody, the slide whistle and the descent into "You'll be swell..." How can anyone not be in musical heaven at this point? Then on and on, hit after hit until the hilarious rendidtion of "have an eggroll", the stripper music and that heavenly trumpet solo, the equestrian music and then once again that amazing triad on "I had a dream"

Nobody...NOBODY has ever written and orchestrated a better overture. It just does not exist. This piece of music alone is worth the price of admission.

And then the show started and there she was. In the audience. The god of musical theater. "SING OUT LOUISE!!!!" Right out here with the people. I was a little kid but I still remember the gasps and the whispers. "It's her!" People craining to see.

This really was the entrance-to-end-all-entrances.

As for the show itself, obviously, my admiration has grown as I've grown older. It has deepened and richened as I have come to understand the language and syntax of musical theatre. It has become as one with my fantastical childhood memories.

The book for this show is perhaps one of the greatest biographies ever put on stage (and believe-you-me, only HALF of what Rose did in real life is onstage. There's no mention of the fact that she killed a woman and got away with it, her lesbianism isn't discussed) because it tells Rose's story THROUGH THE STORY OF THE TWO DAUGHTERS which is amazing because ROSE'S LIFE WAS LIVED THROUGH THE LIVES AND CAREERS OF HER DAUGHTERS. That is an amazing technique to tell a story. I've never seen that done before or since.

The music is masterful, haunting and so evocative of the period and the life these girls lived. I can smell the backstage of every vaudeville theater, with the combination of cigar smoke and pancake makeup. I can close my eyes and see the tiny, cold dressing rooms and the steamer trunks, covered with labels from theaters in Topeka and Des Moines and filled with the performers entire lives. I get all of that from the music and we haven't even started talking about the lyrics yet.

Someone said there is no fat on the book. That's true. It's all meat and it's fabulously butchered and served up to us.

Listen to the overture again and imagine youself backstage at Klaw and Erlanger's Imperial Theatre in Poukipsie on a Wednesday afternoon with an audience full of weary salesman and sailors. If you can't conjure up your own image as that glorious music pours by, I am so, so sad for you.

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 3:25am

WOW!

[AnythingCanHappen]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 3:37am

Best review of anything, allofmylife.

Ever.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 5:09am

Yea, even if you didn't 'remember the show all that well'...

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 7:10am

""I think he might like an all kazoo production of Les Mis..."

Don't say that too loud, Doyle just might use that for his next production!"

That was hilarious!

And God help the man who started this thread.

[steveshack]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 7:37am

Gypsy is the great musical ever written. (Wait till you see how we use it in "The Big Voice" plug, plus.)

It's the FACT that Mama Rose is so flawed a character that makes her such a GREAT character. Myself, because I came from a rock and roll background, I never "understood" the score until I actually saw the show because I didn't like anything that wasn't a rock song. So, I think perhaps younger people not acquainted with musical theatre might be put off by the fact that the music, to their ears, will sound "old fashioned."

But as pure storytelling, it just doesn't get any better than Gypsy. And I have to say that I absolutely LOVED the revival with Bernadette Peters. I thought it was absolute genius to see the show reimagined just enough to give us some insight into Rose's sexuality.

I don't think it's a bad thing to come from a place of not "getting" something. Great wines would be useless in the hands of people who haven't yet developed mature taste buds. And that's not an insult. Sometimes great art doesn't quite make sense until you've seen all the art that leads up to it.

I look forward to the day with the original poster finally sees Gypsy for what it is and reposts with, "Ohhhh, NOW I get it."
The Big Voice: God or Merman? blog

[mike L G]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 8:47am

I just think this is the epitomy of the Musical
Theatre while speaking about this the one i like the best that i
got to live is Bernadete Peters on tv Bette Midler.Hope this photo show's up, it expalian's a lot how I feel like in response to the question

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 9:46am

That was a beautiful post full of lovely memories. Thank you for that.

However, I always find posts with such superlatives a little suspect, "nobody has ever written...best EVER, etc etc"

No piece is so good that everyone MUST like it or be labeled an idiot/dilletante, etc.

Some pieces resonate with some people and some don't.
Some pieces are an aquired taste however, but since I grew up on these kinds of musicals (I wasn't born an ALW/Sondhead like some of these kids) I grew up doing regional productions of Oliver and other shows with kids in them, and I studied these shows like they were going out of style.

But Gypsy is a show that never tugged at me.
That having been said, I did end up watching the last half of the film again last night and the very end got to me. Louise ends up being the magnanimous one and tries to bridge the gap after she sees her mother have an epiphany, which really did make me shed a tear (but in the last minute of the show?)

And Im not blaming it on the composer, I love Styne, Bells are Ringing is a great show and one of my favorites, or the book writer, I think Laurents is funny, but mysoginistic in all of his works, but he still wrote a tight book with indeed no fat for Gypsy, and Sondheim's lyrics are well crafted here, but I still wonder what this show would have sounded like with a Sondheim score, although Im not sure I would have liked it any better.

So my final verdict, at lesat for now, is that Gypsy is a classic, but outside of the norm for your average show, which probably speaks to its endurance.

It's not a question of getting it or not getting it, I still don't think it's overture is any better than most, but that's ok.

I certainly want to thank everyone for taking the time to post their memories/thoughts about Gypsy, it certainly made me take another look and I found a lot that I had missed.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 11:41am

Theatre people have always loved Gypsy more than general audiences, I think. The show is about the theatre itself, it has that incredibly quotable book and score, and the role of Rose is catnip for every musical theatre diva. But even with Merman, Gypsy was a hit, but not a My Fair Lady or The Sound of Music sized hit. I think it's because the show makes most audiences generally uncomfortable, since ultimately, Gypsy is about how parents destroy the lives of their children, and then the children get to take care of them when they get old.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/3/06 at 11:51am

"But Gypsy is a show that never tugged at me."

You must be dead inside.

I feel sorry for you.