Mack & Mabel?- Page 3

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 3:56pm

Don't know if ever considered it, but like I said before "Topper" would have been a perfect fit for the Herm.

It has everyting that is signature Jerry Herman.. space for his usually "Live Life" song, space for his usually "Female Adoration" number.

Pity he never took a crack at it.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 4:36pm

"...the overture seems a bit long at Shaw. It clocks in at eight minutes..."

8 minutes is WAY too long! On the OCR it clocks in at 4 1/2 minutes, which is the perfect length.

Generally audiences no longer listen to Overtures. (Did they ever??) They carry on conversations, use it to arrive late or make a last minute trip to the bathroom. Some directors try to overcome this by providing some sort of stage action or visual montage which can sometimes be effective.

Given this I can understand why Gower Champion (and other recent directors) have eliminated or reduced overtures.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 6:14pm

The show has never worked, not the least because of its downbeat ending. But that's only one of its many problems. For a show dealing with slapstick and comedy, there are mighty few laughs in the script; the romance is paper-thin and barely delineated; situations like Mabel disrupting the film shoot are contrived and cliched; and by the time she succumbs to her addictions, there is nothing left for the character to do (and the actress to play) but look sad. You'd need to throw the whole thing out and start from scratch and that seems unlikely at this point.

As far as the Doyle/London production is concerned, it didn't work in the slightest and only made the glaring flaws of the show more apparent than ever.


Patti Placebo
My Mommy's closet

Updated On: 4/11/07 at 06:14 PM

[MrBundles]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 6:16pm

i love how people think their opinions are always fact.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 6:21pm

You're so right, Mr.Bundles. Your opinion IS fiction.





Tommy Pooter
Playing with Patti in Mommy's closet

[jv92]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 6:37pm

"And to answer the Overture question, Gower Champion hated overtures, and rarely used them. HELLO, DOLLY! has an overture on the CD, but it was actually used as the Entre'Acte in the actual musical."

Every brilliant, but self absored director of the day hated overtures.

Regarding the home movies of Mack and Mabel-
If anyone has them PLEASE put them up on that site. I don't think I'll be able to wait until the Herman documentary later this year. The Hello, Dolly footage alone makes it look like a masterpiece.

It's interesting to note that Clive Barnes, who I don't care much with the exception that he was a champion of Jerry Herman's work when many didn't appreciate him (Frank Rich), of the Times gave Mack and Mabel a glowing review upon its opening. Yes he had quibbles with the book, but loved the score, cast and staging. And still it ran 66 performances. The only reason it closed was because the Shuberts wanted the laughable little hit called The Wiz to open (I don't like it. It is an annoying show, plus in inspired a God awful movie.) and David Merrick gave him. Updated On: 4/11/07 at 06:37 PM

[AJ1985]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 12:57am

Answer me this, TheEnchantedHunter: DID you actually see the London production? Or for that matter have you seen any of the shows you pontificate on? Every time we try to have a discussion on the merits of any show you fly in like a seagull crap all over it with your holier-than-thou style of writing. Hell I can't even tell what’s up with you. On one hand you claim to be a high school student and then you claim you were at the original production of FOLLIES in 1972. You never contribute anything of value and you seem to hate every play and musical known to exist. So why even bother coming here to post? Do us all a favour and spread your charms like the plague on RATM or some other board.

[Urban]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 7:06am

I guess nobody has started a RAGTIME thread lately for TheEnchantedHunter to bitch in, thus he needs to find somewhere else to let it all flow out.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 12:00pm

BRAVO AJ! Very well put.

Uban, it isn't just RAGTIME. Check EH's history and you'll see nothing but bitchy negative comments on every show.

As for the ending of MACK AND MABEL, the original ending was far more powerful than the later "slapstick" ending which was tacked on for the tour and published in the S.French edition.

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 1:42pm

I love "I Promise You a Happy Ending" better than any tacked on happy ending.

I remember the first time I played the album. I put it on as background music and that song stopped me in my tracks. I replayed it at least three times. It made me start respecting Jerry Herman (at whom I was still pissed at for winning the Tony for "La Cage").

I don't think that Clive Barnes gave "Mack and Mabel" all that good of a review when it came out originally. I remember when the revue "Jerry's Girls" opened on Broadway, John Simon, in his review, said that he found it amusing to read Clive Barnes' review stating how wonderful the songs from "Mack and Mabel" are when Clive Barnes was one of the people who helped make it a flop...

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 2:59pm

Frontrowcenter, I've read a script that I thought was the original. In that version, Mack and Mabel had a final encounter after she had been accused of murder, she was in a very bad state (from the drugs and booze) and if I remember correctly Mack had to leave her there-or she refused to leave, can't remember. The show ended with Mack back on the studio singing "I Promise You a Happy Ending" having a fantasized wedding. Is that the way the original ending goes?

[jv92]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 10:15pm

Was she even actually accused of muder?

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 4/12/07 at 11:14pm

"Answer me this, TheEnchantedHunter: DID you actually see the London production?"

I don't owe you an explanation at all but since you asked, I'll condescend to you:

Yeah, I saw M&M at the Criterion at Piccadilly and when David Soul sang MOVIES WERE MOVIES and a curtain was pulled back to reveal...a marching band, the actor-as-orchestra concept went right down the toilet and stayed there. And as I wrote previously, this threadbare show, despite its enjoyable score, simply doesn't work. Its cinematic concerns had no business being on a stage (didn't Gower Champion EVER stop to consider that pie fights in movies are EDITED???) and no amount of revision will ever make it stageworthy. Period.

"Or for that matter have you seen any of the shows you pontificate on? Every time we try to have a discussion on the merits of any show you fly in like a seagull crap all over it with your holier-than-thou style of writing."

And the cheerleaders without an ounce of discernment or critical thinking leave me just as nauseous, so we're even. It's very simple: if you don't like my posts, don't read 'em. But apparently you find them so fascinating, you can't help yourself.

"Hell I can't even tell what’s up with you. On one hand you claim to be a high school student..."

Class of 2007.

"...and then you claim you were at the original production of FOLLIES in 1972."

John McMartin always sang behind the beat.

"You never contribute anything of value and you seem to hate every play and musical known to exist. So why even bother coming here to post?"

Welcome to message boards.

"Do us all a favour and spread your charms like the plague on RATM or some other board."

Nah.


Jerusha Bromley
Walpole, Mass.





Updated On: 4/13/07 at 11:14 PM

[Urban]

Posted: 4/13/07 at 7:13am

You know, just to be random, when I first listend to the OBCR for the very first time, I pictured "I Promise You a Happy Ending" being sung by Mack to Mabel on a dimly lit stage only to have to lighting to reveal towards the end of the song Mabel is in a coffin - her coffin.

Yeah, I know, I little to "Evita" like.

And yes, I have way to much of an overactive imagination sometimes.

[mallardo]

Posted: 4/13/07 at 12:30pm

Add me to the list of those who loved the John Doyle production in London. M & M will never work??? It DID work, on all levels. As I understand it, the version used there is pretty much what will be used at the Shaw Fest.

[G_Schlozinski2]

Posted: 7/11/07 at 2:47am

as i've been re-reading this thread, i've thought to myself... "self... what if this show were staged backwards? an 8.5 minute after-ture would certainly send the audience out humming... and the tragic ending could be redeemed in the same way their actual lives were - in retrospect, with respect for the work that remains behind... self, you may be on to something there. might have to shuffle several of the numbers around, tell the story in a decidedly non-linear fashion. place the audience on and above a soundstage, film the numbers that don't work on stage and screen them as dailies... end the show with 'look what happened to mabel' as an ironic reminder of the beginning of the show -- which used to be the end..."

but it's 2:46 AM and i should be getting back to that epic about the Five Rhone Maidens of Avignon...

[G_Schlozinski2]

Posted: 7/11/07 at 2:51am

Gertrude, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard!

Shut up, Eve!

You shut up!

You're too short for that gesture!

You don't like Eve, do you?

I hear you're the understudy in there now!

It's like he was putting words in my mouth...



Updated On: 7/11/07 at 02:51 AM

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 7/11/07 at 5:39am

Did anyone see the London Production in the mid 90's with Caroline O'Connor have seen a video of that production and it seemed to work well. ( but than again it is the only time i have seen the show )

[jv92]

Posted: 7/11/07 at 9:23am

Re: Clive Barnes' review
He did not pan it. He pointed out its flaws like every critic was doing, but spent a lot of time on the possitives. However, I haven't actually read the full review in years, though. I'm not exactly 100% sure.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 7/11/07 at 11:48am

The only part of the MACK & MABEL '95 London cast recording that I enjoy is Howard McGillin's Mack Sennett, his "Movies Were Movies" is as good as Preston's.
I'm not a big fan of O'Connor's Mabel, I think she tries too hard. Both Krakowski and Peters sound so natural while singing each song.