A theory on the supposed robbery of Raul- Page 4

[keen on kean]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 8:57am

Admission - I posted elsewhere my observation that Raul's Tony performance of "Being Alive" was hardly representative of his actual performance - the song itself was shortened, and Raul did not have the dramatic interplay of friends' voices urging him on - which meant a lot of the pauses just felt empty. His hesitation at the piano is intentional and dramatic but I am sure looked like he didn't know what he was doing. But the risk of taking a big number out of context is it is all climax and no build-up. (Can't wait to see the inevitable comments on that.)

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:03am

Thank you, keen, well put! You also have to remember that the whole show builds up to that moment, and the few minutes between the end of "Ladies who Lunch" are some of the most intense currently on Broadway (some of us are young enough to still have feeling in our bodies). I feel it was a bad choice for performance out of context and, in that situation, did feel like an American Idol performance.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:12am

Born to Reign - I wasn't referring specifically to the context of this show, but the context on any show. No matter the context, the musical theatre actor shouldn't be straining to sing. As I said, that's not musical theatre, that's American Idol.

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 09:12 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:17am

The oncamera/off-camera argument is a little silly, since everyone on the Tonys was dealing with that same issue. A lot of shows have been making other television appearances as well. And they are all out of context.

By the way, please stop acting as if most people here don't know the plot/storyline of COMPANY, even if we haven't necessarily seen this production. My music class in high school studied the show extensively, and most of us have seen professional productions. We know what leads up to the song.

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 09:17 AM

[keen on kean]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:23am

Rath - I have also been called out for assuming that people do know the context - but you know the old saying, "If you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, DO!"

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:25am

You're right, keen, I'm sorry. It's just that a lot of the people feeling the need to defend Raul seem to believe most of the rest of us don't know COMPANY.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:27am

But he's not attacking the show, he's attacking this specific production. I'm trying to make my point using the resources I have, and sometimes restating the plot points is necessary. As for the TV angle, something like "show people" is what people expect on the Tonys, and it translates well to a network broadcast. "Being Alive" was a poor choice out of context because a lot of the viewing audience DOES NOT know the plot/storyline.

As far as the context. If Bobby is on the verge of an existential meltdown, steps center stage, and then belts out a pretty, easy version of the song, the show loses all the momentum it's built up. I think it's a silly argument to say that musical theatre songs shouldn't sometimes be strained and powerful. Look at Audra McDonald. She can sing anything, no problem. Yet, in 110, she gives a heartbreaking, emotional performance of "Old Maid" where she seems of the verge of breaking down any second. It's called acting.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:31am

"My music class in high school studied the show extensively ..."

Wooo! Smell you, Nancy Drew! Period, end of discussion. Rath's music class in high school studied the show extensively.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:31am

But Audra's vocal technique is still flawless.

And for the record, I didn't think Show People translated all that well. I think it looks boring and flat on tv, whereas I absolutely love it onstage. But, that has nothing to do with the company's performance, it has to do with the difficulty of translating live theater to an on camera performance. They all still did a wonderful job, and didn't change their vocal/dancing/acting techniques. That's the difference.

[singingshowgirl]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:33am

does anyone think dhp won because the voters were split between Raul and someone else (gavin, michael, or johnathan)??

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:34am

I didn't say it wasn't flawless. Personally, I think Raul's is pretty damn good. I'm just trying to make the point that "he looked like he was straining" isn't an argument in musical theatre, especially with a song like that (which is why I feel the need to keep reminding people of the context. I'm not trying to assume everyone doesn't know.)

It's one thing to say "I didn't enjoy the performance" but another to say his vocal technique is bad because he acts while singing.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:37am

No, showgirl. I think DHP probably got the majority of votes on his own.

BTR, I'm not saying that. There's no reason your vocal technique should change if you're "acting." That defeats the purpose of having technique at all. Every song involves acting. Every song. Musical theater, pop, opera, lieder, folk, country, rap.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:41am

That's all I was trying to say, rath (I'm totally not trying to attack you, I'm trying to point out the idiocy of admission's argument. I think you make some excellent points)

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:41am

That's cool, BTR. Same here, btw.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:49am

Rath, what I was saying about the camera wasn't necessarily only in defense of Raul -- I even said in my post that other performances had the same problem, so yes, I acknowledged that's an unavoidable, widespread issue with Tony performances. I was just throwing it out there. Please stop assuming that everything I say is just automatically only a matter of my running to his defense. His work obviously means a lot to me, but assuming that that means I think he's infallible is a little bit unfair. I was pointing out something that might be worth considering for why the performance didn't work for some people, and why it works so much better in context, in a theater -- not making excuses for him.

I also think it's unfair to make such a huge judgment about the awards and ENTIRE performances looking at one single song out-of-context, but that's an entirely different story. I liked Raul's Tony performance, but he was forcing a lot of things harder than he seems to on stage. Not his best. I might, however, argue that some of the effort COULD be an acting choice, because of the context of the song. I don't live in his brain, so I don't know, but I'm sure it's a possibility, because they're reading Being Alive as a big, difficult, scary leap into epiphany.

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 09:49 AM

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:51am

I agree, emcee. It wasn't his best work. In more defense, he was also performing to 5,000 people at RCMH (and 6 mil at home) as opposed to about 500 every other night

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 09:51 AM

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:51am

I never said his performance was bad because he "looks like he's straining." Straining can be and often is a good acting choice. I'm referring to the massive chest breaths before his high notes, the gulping down of air, and the facial contortions on the big notes that make it obvious that he, Raul Esparza, and not Bobby, is having difficulty singing the song.

It's a difficult song to sing, so I have no problem with someone having difficulty singing it. What I have a problem with is someone letting me SEE that he's having difficulty singing it. Audra (to bring her up again) has sung some of the most difficult soprano songs in all of musical theatre and I have never once seen her TRY on the big/high/difficult parts.

For the eighty-millionth time, THAT is what I'm referring to. Not acting choices, not stage-to-screen mistranslation, not out-of-context complications, but technique. And if you don't have the technique -- as I'm sure your acting/singing/dancing/whateverthehellelse teacher has told you a thousand times -- everything else suffers; including your acting. And I think that because Raul's technique was a bit iffy, his portrayal of Bobby suffered and he couldn't grab the Tony.

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 09:51 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:53am

See, Born, but so was everybody else. Those are the kinds of excuses, I think, that make it very easy for people to assume his fans are blind idiots.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:53am

I'm sure it's always exceptionally nerve-wracking for people used to singing in front of a theater full of people to be then performing in front of a national television audience, live. I can't imagine it.

What I will say is that Rose's Turn is a bit difficult out of context as well, and yet Bernadette's Tony performance was so earth-shattering that it made me go see the production - one I had no desire to see before that.


ETA: I completely agree with admission's last post.

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 09:53 AM

[Craww]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:55am

Would you let him take your kids to the Zoo?
Would he cheer you up when your blue?

Keeping in mind previous posts, it sometimes seems as if this lyric is the very center of your argument. The point you're trying to make only works on the surface, though.

Yes. If the Bobby that Raul portrays in the show was my good friend, like he is to the couples in the show, I would certainly let him take my hypothetical kids to the zoo. Just because he's portrayed a little moodier doesn't mean he's going to lose them, or molest them, or just be a complete bore. Kids love running all over a good humored straight man. The same holds for the parents, in need of a cheer up.

Why does Bobby have to be an instantly recognizable stock character of cheer? I understand if you prefer it that way, but that doesn't mean Raul Esparza's Bobby is invalidated by the text.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:57am

See, and I didn't enjoy Bernadette's performance too much. I thought the same thing about it -that it didn't make sense.

And emcee, I apologize. I do maintain that there are differences between singing a light song with a 30-member ensemble and singing "Being Alive" alone.

And I ALSO maintain that the strain is not bad technique, but character choice. You won't convince me otherwise.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 10:00am

If it's character choice than his goal must be to make Bobby empty and soulless, because all I see on that last "being" is a man hitting the high note for the sake of hitting a high note.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 10:01am

I think it's probably both. He isn't well trained, to my knowledge, and obviously it's pretty damned easy for people to tell. He considers himself an actor who sings, not a singer... or even a singing actor.

And yes, of course there are differences. Nothing wrong with maintaining the obvious.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 10:04am

There are people who don't have the raw vocal talent that Raul has, but can still put over a number - even the most difficult, emotional number - because they are actors, and damn good ones. Witness Tony winner Tyne Daly's Rose, for one.

I don't mind if someone isn't a great singer. I prefer an actor who sings to a singer who "acts" any day. I don't get either from Raul.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 10:08am

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I find his performance heartwrenching.

Admission, I still don't think it's fair to criticize a performance you haven't seen