First Prerecorded Vocals- Page 4
First Prerecorded Vocals
#75re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 12:05am
Here's Liza doing the back-breaking "City Lights" from The Act on the Tony broadcast. See if you can see where she's singing live and where she's singing to the prerecorded track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPfZKFbpcmQ
#76re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 12:05amSomebody really needs to clear up this COMPANY debacle.
#77re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 12:25amI agree that the end result as heard on the Broadway Cast album is not brilliant or innovative but the concept is. The problem is that while even a second rate classical choral group could hold the note live for about 30 seconds and make it seem seamless, most of the best musical theater singers, with rare exceptions (practically non existent today) are inferior to their classical counterparts. In addition the note was held by a group of performers like Stritch who were not normally ensemble singers. That is why there were real professional choral singers in the pit to augment the ensemble. The effect was produced beautifully in the performance that I attended in London and it was not pre-recorded but by this time the cast had been performing their roles for several years. Also in the regional show in which I worked the note was sung live and also worked perfectly. In both productions the note was about 20 seconds, which is not to say that in the Broadway production it was not longer as you say. I never attended a performance of the show in New York but on the original cast album the note is about 18 seconds long. It could have been shortened for the recording, however. Perhaps someone who attended a performance of the original New York run could clarify what was done and how long the note was held for the original run.
My Avatar is the amazing young singer, James Anest
#78re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 12:55am
"I never attended a performance of the show in New York but on the original cast album the note is about 18 seconds long. It could have been shortened for the recording, however. Perhaps someone who attended a performance of the original New York run could clarify what was done and how long the note was held for the original run."
I did post that it was held for approximately 30 seconds.
I don't think it was pre-recorded, but I can't swear to that. I think it was just that the Vocal Minority took over at a certain point, and then the rest of the cast joined back in.
It also has to be remembered that the cast was moving during most of it. So it would have been very difficult for them to hold the note for all that long while they were moving.
#79re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 2:33am
Good point about the end of "My Fair Lady." And I didn't know about "Happy Hunting." Of course, both of those were spoken word only.
To answer the question from BNN, it seems like the earliest mention here is "The Pajama Game," which of course was a clever musical idea and was part of the action of "Hey There"'s staging. The taping was not because the actors were too far upstage, doing taxing choreography, couldn't sing in a certain way, etc., with the fact that the singing is recorded being kept a "secret" from the audience.
The earliest mention of this seems to be the opening of "Bye Bye Birdie," followed by the high note in "The Apple Tree," assuming that the "Sweet Charity" rumor is not to be believed. "Company" is next.
And as far as the original "Company" goes, what are we going to accept as a definite answer? Does anyone know anyone who was either onstage or backstage in the original production? Or was front-of-house, for that matter?
#80re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 5:16am
The big thing that is annoying me at the moment is the amount of pre recorded vocals for the ensemble that appearing in UK shows (especially the tours)
Recently ive heard the click track used in Joseph, The Wedding Singer, Flashdance, Cabaret and Footloose.Its annoying and massively obvious.
I remember when i was in Fame in London we had a pre recorded vocal to the song Fame (backing, not the lead vocal) and we sang along with it but the rest was all live and that's a high energy show where you would have thought a click track would be used.
If i was in the ensemble of one of the shows i mentioned i would find it insulting that they thought we needed the help
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#81re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 7:32amAs appropriate to the thread topic, can anyone settle this dispute I'm having with a friend. Does anyone know for sure if during YF's cave scene Elizabeth's "You can't be serious; put that back; Ah, sweet mystery of life..." is a pre-recorded moment? It made sense to me, as it sounded exactly the same each time I heard Megan do it, plus she has a bit of a costume change (disshelved dress and wig), which would make sense to cover. However, there is also an extra bit of time with the dialogue afterward between Kemp and Ziggy to allow for such a change. Just curious to see who was right.
...And so, there I was at the stage door for "Equus". The enthused avalanche of "Harry Potter" fans was literally pushing me into the barricades. As I was thrust face-first into Daniel Radcliffe's hat, I suddenly felt the thumb of a lanky gentleman behind me pressing firmly into my back. It was then that I realized that both of his hands had Playbills, and that both arms were outstretched in front of me...
morosco
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/10/04
#82re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 9:54amIf you see the conductor don headphones at any point during a show chances are good that something pre-recorded is happening. He's listening to the click track in order to synchronize the live elements with the pre-recorded elements. That's what I've always thought. Could be wrong.
#83re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 10:11am
sort of off topic, but something that I've heard before is numbers for the Tonys being prerecorded. some I can't say either way (haven't seen them), but others...I really doubt they were prerecorded. (the best example I can think of is Evita's Tony performance)
so does anyone know about those?
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
BNN
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/05
#84re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 10:26am
I know for certain that when Angela Lansbury did Worst Pies it was prerecorded (and awful, but that's not her fault).
Also, in an effort to clear the Company issue up, here is the "love" note from opening night, which according to the Fair Use Act of 1970, is legal to distribute as long as it is used for education and criticism, which it most certainly is.
(Be sure to right click and save as, or else it wont open)
Company Note
Tick Tock
Updated On: 10/14/08 at 10:26 AM
Eponine3
Understudy Joined: 12/7/06
#85re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 10:29am
In Phantom of the opera the entire title song is prerecorded and the reasoning for that has nothing to do with the girl playing Christine hitting that final note. It has to do with the technical elements of the song and the fact that three pairs of doubles are used to create the descending to underneath the opera house effect. The only reason that people focus so much on that last note and believe that is the only note prerecorded is because sometimes it will be very obvious that Christine is not matching with the vocals if the phantom does not spin her around and exactly the right moment. You also can clearly hear that Christine's voice changes for that song if you happen to see a performance on the day that the ALTERNATE is performing because she will sing for herself in all the other songs and then you get to that one and it is PRIMARY Christine
Also Broadway stars are often prerecorded for events like the Macy's Parade or National tv performances.. just so that sound quality is not an issue. singing live in Harold's Square would be a nightmare to try and have the right sound mix.
Many other singers in other genres of music have the same thing done. In fact some of the biggest name stars in the world have back-up tracks on their tours where they sing a long with themselves singing the same song simply because of being out of breath from dancing or for trying to control sound in a huge arena. You don't want people paying hundreds of dollars to see a show and then have it sound like crud.
#86re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 1:11pm
"I know for certain that when Angela Lansbury did Worst Pies it was prerecorded (and awful, but that's not her fault)."
When she did it on the Tonys, it was pre-recorded. It wasn't pre-recorded in the show.
BNN
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/05
#87re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 1:17pmSorry that's what I meant, I just got caught up in how dissapointed I was at the idea of making Angela Lansbury lip-sync.
Tick Tock
LadyDramaturg2
Featured Actor Joined: 8/21/08
#88re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 3:03pm
lj889 -- I find it stunning that GV would arrange for the entire song [Where am I going?] to be cut -- especially since it was such a hallmark number (I believe you, I just, like, you know, can't believe it!).
Do you know where you heard/read that? Does anyone know if there is a filmed recording preserving that performance (wouldn't it be awful if the Lincoln Center Library version was recorded on one of the nights that she decided to save her strength --)?
#89re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 3:20pm
"I find it stunning that GV would arrange for the entire song [Where am I going?] to be cut -- especially since it was such a hallmark number (I believe you, I just, like, you know, can't believe it!).
Do you know where you heard/read that? Does anyone know if there is a filmed recording preserving that performance (wouldn't it be awful if the Lincoln Center Library version was recorded on one of the nights that she decided to save her strength --)?"
Mandelbaum mentions her dropping the songs at this link:
http://www.broadway.com/gen/Buzz_Story.aspx?ci=33955&pn=1
And I think it may be mentioned in Gottfried's Fosse bio, which I haven't read. (He's a terrible writer.)
The Theatre on Film and Tape collection didn't start till around 1971 so there's no TOFT video of Verdon's performance.
#90re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 3:45pm
Ok, I didn't want to bring it up, but since others have, I've heard the opening night recording as well, and you hear a shocking difference between the live vocals and when the recording takes over. It sounds as if the live drummer is attempting to keep up and then goes horribly astray at one point. Also, when the real singers take over afterward, the recording lingers for a second, so you actually hear a very brief overlapping of "Loooooooove" and "yooooouuu."
"Y'all have a GRAND day now"
#91re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 4:25pm
Well, all's I can say is I was 14 at the time and saw the original Company production 4 times, and I knew they weren't really holding their breaths for the "We love you" transition.
I was too busy being thrilled, and I never once cared how they did it.
#92re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 4:33pm
I know for certain that when Angela Lansbury did Worst Pies it was prerecorded (and awful, but that's not her fault).
- I know she lip synced to the number on the Tonys, but I never heard she did it every night during the show too? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of life theater, to lip sync a full song every night?
And regarding Gwen Verdon. There's also a famous story about an angry fan who sent her a letter about cutting the song, and she calculated the amount of money they lost for the song being cut, and she sent them a refund. That is class right there.
#93re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 4:38pmno, Lansbury only lip synched during the Tonys, never during the show.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
#94re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 6:51pm
WOW! Thanks to BNN for "The 'Love' Note" download. That is awesome! Something is going on there, that's for sure. But if it was a tape, or a "frozen" chord of some kind that was captured and then released on cue, why wasn't it done that way in other very early productions, as was also asserted here? Maybe it was done that way opening night, and not subsequently? I mean, I still don't get the reason for it. Some of the other examples at least make sense.
Did we clear up the elevator issue at least? Was everyone except Robert in the elevator, and were they going down?
One overarching point: What does it say (if anything, good or bad) about the reputation of such theater artists as Hal Prince, Gower Champion and Michael Bennett (not to mention Sondheim, Strouse, Kander and Hamlisch) if the earliest instances of "secret" and non-comic prerecorded vocals (Birdie, Company, Follies, A Chorus Line and The Act) were in their shows, and not in "How Now, Dow Jones?" or "I Had a Ball"? These are not minor practictioners, people. Thoughts?
And any other nominees for early shows? If not, keep those more recent examples comin'!
BNN
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/05
#95re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/14/08 at 8:01pm
I am thoroughly enjoying the phrase "The Love Note."
Anywho, most of the earlier instances of prerecording are sometimes mere seconds of very lengthy performances and they seem to be instances where something had to be sacrificed for the sake of dancing or other taxing activities. It's like with stage combat, you can't actually punch someone in the stomach because they have to project, speak, and possibly sing moments later. This doesn't really work with dancing, you can't fake dancing onstage so you can be sure to breathe properly and sing or speak (unless you want me to assault you at the stage door) so the prerecording segments seem like they were simply in place to make sure certain moments stayed seemless and quality didn't haphazardly drop for what are typically thrilling moments.
Tick Tock
??
Featured Actor Joined: 1/18/06
#97re: First Prerecorded Vocals
Posted: 10/16/08 at 1:34am
While I think pre recorded vocals are cheap and cheat the audience out of what they are paying for, it does not bother me as much as canned music.
A few years back, 2003, I saw the JCS tour with Eric Kunze and the late, great Carl Anderson. I noticed that the pit put down their instruments during "Judas's death", and I remember being dissapointed. A. Because I just don't see the need for that and B. The show is a rock opera, give me a rock band, not a karaoke track.
*shakes fist at Gale Edwards*
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