Honeymoon in Vegas Reviews- Page 5

[15minutecall]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 10:42pm

I'm not insisting That anyone's wrong about perceiving this show as offensive. I don't find it so and I'm asking for details from those who have been offended as to why they find it so, beyond restating a story point. To me, the show doesn't treat Betsy as a chit. A character does. Is West Side Story racist because racial epithets are tossed around?

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:04pm

"Is West Side Story racist because racial epithets are tossed around? "

Do you genuinely believe that's a valid comparison? Because, if so, you may never understand. West Side Story uses racial epithets because they're authentic to the time and the story being told. The point is to show the racial tension, and the end message of the show is related to the senseless violence that judgment, racism, and anger can bring about. The ending of the show is about two lovers who came from different worlds and racial backgrounds and how the world they lived in destroyed what they had.

What people, including myself, object to in Honeymoon, is using racial stereotypes as a joke and taking tired cliches and allowing tourists to get cheap laughs off of them. Instead of creating an original joke, they took a racist stereotype, made up an insulting fake pidgin language, and said look, isn't this hilarious? Look at how silly and ridiculous this culture is!!! It's not okay, and it's really shocking to me how many people think it is. We removed Ugg-a-Wugg from Peter Pan and I find this just as, if not more offensive.

Updated On: 1/30/15 at 11:04 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:06pm

People need to stop being so friggin thin skinned

Give me a break.

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:08pm

Sorry, you don't get to decide what POC find offensive. Almost everyone I know who saw the show was uncomfortable with the "Frikki" number. Updated On: 1/30/15 at 11:08 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:16pm

Neither do you

If you or your friends find it so offensive, send letters to the composer c/o the theater stating your displeasure. I as a PONC do not find it offensive

I am Irish and care not about the flood of Irish jokes be it On St Patricks day or any other day. I am not so thin skinned things like this bother me.

Updated On: 1/30/15 at 11:16 PM

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:37pm

Okay, well, as a white person, you don't really need a voice in this conversation, sorry. Why exactly do white people feel SO assertive about shutting down any conversation about possible racism? And how ridiculous do you have to be to compare institutionalized racism that is often mocked for the amusement of the ignorant to Irish jokes on St. Patrick's Day? Sorry, but we have to be defined by the stereotypes that the white men involved in creating this show find funny and it's insulting.

I find it offensive so I'm sharing my opinion, I'm entitled to do that. What a great idea, I'll be happy to write Mr. Brown a letter.

[AKarp2013]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:42pm

"I'll be happy to write Mr. Brown a letter."

You want to put a petition on Change.org too? Get 10,000 signatures telling the creative team of Honeymoon that you find their show offensive and demand that they cease and desist?

Get over it. Updated On: 1/30/15 at 11:42 PM

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:44pm

No? They put out a product and as someone who consumed the product, I'm now entitled to share my views and review it. I don't believe in shutting things down as a form of censorship purely because something is offensive. Free speech includes the freedom to say things that other people find odious and I don't want to live in a country without it. But free speech does not shield you from criticism.

The show will close or run on it's own merits.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:53pm

Zanna

Last time I heard there is still a thing called free speech. We are losing more and more of that right day by day. You call me racist and because I am white , I have lesser rights than you. Sorry but that ain't gonna fly pal. By saying I have no voice because I am white, you show who the real racist is.


Send your letters. By the time he gets them the show will be closed. You can than puff out your chest and be proud you had a hand in it closing and putting people out of work. You really won't but I say it to make you feel better

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:57pm

Sorry, I'm going to have to block you. You're not reading what I'm saying and it's just fueling an unproductive hateful distraction to continue to reply.

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:02am

I'm a person who loves to joke just about anything/everything WITH THAT BEING SAID...

I don't believe racism, sexism, homophobia, etc are things we should be ignoring or "getting over." Once these things don't have serious effects on our society (and if you don't think they are alive & well, then good for you for keeping your head up your ass) THEN, maybe.

Until then, they're not always just jokes, especially if it's coming from a form of media. They're real to a lot of people, and whether you can relate or understand is not the point. People of privilege don't get to tell oppressed people what is or what isn't offensive. That's not how the game works. You have no credentials that give you the understanding.

The trick of "speaking ON the stereotype" is that we don't live in a world where that is clear. There are so many people who see stereotypes and racist portrayals of people in media and go, "ahahahaha, oh my god, that's so true!", make similar jokes in real life, and so it continues.

Who the hell is a white person (and I'm a white guy, so don't act like I'm seeing it from a different angle) that they feel they have enough understanding or right to tell someone to "get over it"? You don't have the hurdles/issues/prejudice/harassment/etc these people do. That's incredibly ignorant.

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:04am

Sorry to double post, but this is comedy GOLD:

"By saying I have no voice because I am white, you show who the real racist is."

Anyone who thinks reverse racism is a thing is nothing but incredibly delusional and should never be taken seriously.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:10am

No reverse racism?

OK I have now heard it all. This conversation is like pissing up a rope. I suggest we all go to bed as this is getting us nowhere . None of us will change our views so let us leave it at that .

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:15am

"People need to stop being so friggin thin skinned

Give me a break."

Says the guy who has blocked more people than any 5 other posters combined.

[15minutecall]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:15am

ZannaDo, why the need to position my sensibility as potentially so far gone it may be beyond change? My question is pretty simple I think. "Is West Side Story racist because racial epithets are tossed around? "

You write, "Do you genuinely believe that's a valid comparison? Because, if so, you may never understand." I didn't compare the shows as if they had the same message or used potentially offensive material to the same ends.but even if I did, you really think that might make me irredeemable?

Let's leave racism off the table and stick to sexism for my question. Do you or others here think the production treats Betsy as worthy of how her fiancée treats her?

Updated On: 1/31/15 at 12:15 AM

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:19am

Sure, we can drop it and get back to whatever the hell people were talking about re: Vegas. We're all just talking in circles until this damn thing closes...

As long as the fact is made clear, reverse racism does not exist (get a better understanding of what racism ACTUALLY is and you'll get it) and will never exist until people of color are at the ridiculous level of power us white people are.

Lovely chatting with you. Have a wonderful night.

Updated On: 1/31/15 at 12:19 AM

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:24am

15minutecall,
I think the fact that you'd compare a show like WSS that very clearly shows the real, human cost racism has and compare it to what is being discussed about HMiV is concerning, yes. Maybe it doesn't make you irredeemable, but it certainly is revealing of a certain level of ignorance. If you're willing to learn and want to understand why the racial issues here are so insulting and complex, then that's a fantastic step forward.

I agree with GiantsIntheSky2 100%, especially on the insane notion that is "reverse racism". I don't think anything should be shoved "off the table" as this thread is about the show in general, but I'm certainly going to tag out.

[15minutecall]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:34am

Wow. I've made no comments on your or anyone else here's character, but you keep swinging away at mine. In trying to understand your and others' position here, I asked what I thought was a simple and valid question that involved no comparison whatsoever. Some people believe the well-meaning intentions of writers still don't give them the right to use words that hurt, especially if those writers are the same race as the characters using the offensive words.

[MrJude]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 1:25am

as a POC I found nothing wrong with the token characters in the show. The actors were given material and excelled in selling it to the audience. They're probably feeling grateful to have material to perform, even as token characters. As a POC performer, I can tell you that as "real" as west side story is, it's us sharks who still spend most of the show offstage while there's 6 white guys who have lines and only 3 of us that sort of do.

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 1:39am

Shouldn't we be striving for more than actors of color just being happy to have parts, no matter how degrading they are? That's a pretty low bar to meet. You're entitled to your opinion but your opinion doesn't negate those in opposition to it.

[15minutecall]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 1:45am

I agree w your post MrJ but, at the risk of antagonizing you, why are they "token" characters? They're character roles, sure. But they don't seem included out of some obligation of diversity.
Everyone here, except arguably Betsy, is a stereotype. Even the lead is a "guilt ridden Momma's boy." It also seems, in the writing but not in the playing, that he's a Jewish guit-ridden Momma's boy in love with a shiksa.
The Hawaiian characters at least knowingly present themselves as types as they sing send-ups of songs that purport to be traditional but are only Western Ideas of traditional songs. I can understand people finding these moments offensive, but for me it's primarily because the non-offensive aim isn't carried out with enough cleverness or the characters given enough agency of their own to make it worth the risk of giving offense.

[MrJude]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 1:49am

I'm not here to negate other opinions, just to say that there are POCs with skin thicker than others. (not to say one thing is better than another) I mean listen, from what I see and hear of these actors online, they have no issues portraying the parts they have or singing the songs they have/get to sing. Personally, I can't stick up for them and say a show deserves to close because they're getting this "awful" opportunity to be onstage.

Of course the storyline is bonkers and sexist, that's what the storyline was in the movie. Without that storyline, stupid as it is, you have no show. Brynn O'Malley has been vocal that she spent a lot of time in rehearsals pointing out that perhaps her character has a right to be as angry as she is with her fiancee as well as taking on the bet just because she's so mad with him. She did what she could do to make the part playable for her under the circumstances of the plot.

As an actor of color I can tell you that right now, if you want POCs to wait for another If/Then to come along where we get cast regardless of race or creed you're going to be stuck waiting a long time, because there's still people in this business who think of some of us as too tan to play a candlestick or a clock.

ETA: clearing up meaning, also bad grammar. Updated On: 1/31/15 at 01:49 AM

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 1:59am

I think it needs to stop being about thickness of skin, and I think that's really reductive to say. Just because someone finds something offensive, degrading, or hurtful doesn't mean they have thin skin. That's really, really condescending and flat out wrong. Different people with different lived experiences find different things offensive for various reasons and it doesn't make anyone "thin skinned".

[MrJude]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 2:03am

Again, I apologize if you are finding any aggression in my comments. I'm using "thin skin" to mean these things affect some more readily than others, there is no judgement attached. To respond to the other post as well, I am using "token" just because it was used before, I don't find the parts to be tokenized (word?) at all. I do hope this clears up anything and lets you read the rest of my comment without thinking I'm here to get anyone.

[15minutecall]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 2:09am

Uy. Just because he wrote some have thicker skin doesn't mean those who don't are thin-skinned. Maybe he thinks their skin is adequately layered. But he seems to respect the people who are willing to sigh, wish things were better, and maybe even respect and enjoy this work. Are you offended that other people of color may not find the material offensive?