Lyric changes in MISS SAIGON

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 9:36am

There may already be a thread on this somewhere, so forgive me if there is, but I was wondering: has the creative team behind MISS SAIGON addressed the decision to re-write a substantial amount of the lyrics for this new revival?

Some of the changes do help clarify the storytelling but many others seem superfluous - almost all of the rewrites lack the impressionistic poetic quality of the original.  I've never heard of such a big hit being so overhauled for a revival and really wonder what was behind the changes...

 

 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 11:57am

IMO, the original Broadway production was the best. They were still tinkering with it in London, but by the time it arrived in NY, I thought it was the definitive edition. I don't understand all these rewrites and revisions and new songs. They make the piece worse. I hate these new lyrics changes and the inclusion of "Too Much for One Heart" and "Maybe." At least, the former uses the same melody (and some lyrics) as "Please," but the latter is a travesty. Terrible song. If it ain't broke...

Updated On: 10/1/16 at 11:57 AM

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 12:54pm

A lot of the rewrites within stand alone songs make the content pandering or too "on the nose"-- an example that bothers me is the lyric change in "Movie in my Mind":

Original:

The movie plays and plays 

The screen before me fills 

He takes me to New York 

He gives me dollar bills 

Our children laugh all day 

And eat too much ice cream 

And life is like a dream

 

Revised lyrics:

The movie plays and plays
I'll find my true romance
He takes me to a place
Where I don't have to dance
Our children laugh all day
But all that I've been through
Can't make my dream come true

 

The original is poetic and pure fantasy idealism of the U.S. (a sort of female spin on "The American Dream" ) The revised lyric seems trite, self pitying and obvious. I mean, of course, she wants a life where she doesn't have to be a go go dancer- that goes without saying.

i think it was an interview with Sondheim where he said a character should only sing about what they want because what they don't want is patently obvious.

 

 

 

 

Updated On: 10/1/16 at 12:54 PM

[Drewski Vanderbilt]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 1:20pm

The beginning of Kim's Nightmare where Thuy's ghost appears to take kim back to saigon, the orignal lyrics were-

THUY
did you think I'd gone away
this is the face you saw that day
staring at you with open eyes
you're safe in the daylight
but in the dark I rise

I'm the crime that you hid
for you want yo forget that you killed, but you did!
you will never be free
not as long as there's me

did you think you would escape the judgement that was planned?
did you think you would escape the truth's avenging hand
just because you have escaped the bound'ries of your land
I'm here! I'm here! I'm never dead
I'm here! I am the guilt inside your head

(KIM finds herself back in Saigon, April 1975)

you think your marine's not like other men

(CHRIS appears)

he betrayed you once 
and he will again
think about that night
where was he back then.
 

The new lyrics are -

Did you think I'd gone away

I am the man you killed that day.

cold with a bullet inside my chest

my corpse may be sleeping, but my soul wont rest.

I'm the crime that you hid, you can cry but you'll never forget what you did.

you will never be free, not as long as there's me.

did you think you would have escaped the judgement that was planned,

did you think you would escape the truth's avenging hand?

just because you have escaped the boundaries of your land... (from then on its the same)

 

I personally love the original lyrics, because they seem more haunting and dark, the new lyrics are more gritty and realistic, almost non-poetic.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 2:38pm

When I first heard the score back in 1989, I thought Richard Maliby was likely emulating (perhaps subconsciously) poet Alice Goodman's work on the libretto for "Nixon in China". This quip (also now gone) felt reminiscent of Goodman's wry wit:

MIMI: What Happens when the cong attack?

GIGI: They'll rip the hot pants off your back.

THE GIRLS (in unified response): The VC all wear basic black.

Perhaps Maltby felt like his earlier work was too esoteric or derivative, but it does seem that it is the poetic brevity they have gone through the score to remove. I assume all these lyric changes are by Maltby- though perhaps they brought in another writer to tweak his work for this revival.

 

 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 3:04pm

QueenAlice, that excerpt is from the original London production/OLCR. By the time it came to Broadway, the lyric was:

 

Gigi:  Each day more GI's disappear.

Engineer: There's still some left and they'll all be here.

All Girls:  A girl can trust the Engineer.

 

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 3:18pm

Yes it's like that on the "symphonic recording" as well, which I guess reflects many of the changes made for Broadway. This is an instance in which the changed lyric probably clarifies story telling but is awkwardly phrased. I frankly preferred the original.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 6:09pm

The libretto used for the symphonic recording is definitive for me. I like some things about the revival but I can't listen to the cast album without cringing at the new lyrics.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 6:57pm

The new lyrics are in most cases inferior for me. Most of the most egregious offenders have been cited already. The revisions make more sense on paper, but lack the rhythm and flow of the originals.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 11:01pm

Was watching the Manila video on YouTube and I will give the creatives some credit. I have here some examples of lyric changes that were changed for the better. Both these passages were left off the OLC but were included on the Symphonic recording.

This little girl we could be in the sack
For what it costs me to buy a Big Mac

Arguably cringier than any of the ones listed so far. Changed to:

This little girl we could be in the sack
And I’ll take something I can’t give back

Not a stellar line either way IMO but you can't deny the new one is the better of the two.

 

So now who’s really Miss Saigon
TV and stereo she gets
And Elvis Presley on cassettes

Changed to:

So look who’s really Miss Saigon
She’ll leave this wasted land behind
She’ll live the movie in my mind

This one actually flows BETTER than the earlier version.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 3:40pm

Yeah, I like a few of the new ones better.  Not most of them, though.

[Wildcard]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 4:31pm

I like the new lyrics (and Maybe). I think people are just not fans of change. If the lyricists felt that they were not happy with the original lines, then it's their prerogative to make the changes. Don't forget, Alain was not very comfortable with English when the original was written.  He may feel that he is able to express his true intentions more now that he is more versed in the language. 

[lambchop2]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 7:19pm

Some of the lyric changes were welcome (the aforementioned Big Mac line, for sure) but a few fell flat for me, especially the changes that seem designed to soften Chris up and amplify the romantic angle.

post-London version (not sure when these lyrics were put in exactly, they're on the CSR)

Ellen: You said you lived with her, and that's all you were! Only one thing you left out is that you loved her!

Chris: It was just two weeks, that was years ago!

And then the altered lyrics:

Ellen: You said you slept and that's all you were, only thing you left out is that you loved her!

Chris: Yes, we were in love, it was years ago, we were torn apart!

The revised lyrics are more suited to the heavily romantic angle that a lot of productions of the show go for, but I prefer the CSR version where Chris is more callous.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 7:42pm

Wildcard, I believe Maltby wrote the English lyrics -- or rather, translated Boublil's French lyrics.

 

"Maybe" makes no sense. Kim has just revealed that she and Chris were more than a one-night stand, and Kim has screamed in Ellen's face, so why should she suddenly feel compassion for Kim? "Now That I've Seen Her" is a far better reaction to that.

Updated On: 10/2/16 at 07:42 PM

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 9:09pm

The real problem is that any song Ellen could possibly sing at that point derails the growing momentum of Kim's story. It's way too late in the story to hear a sidebar point of view from an undeveloped secondary character.

As many others have pointed out, one of the real flaws in the writing, is the insistence on trying to make Ellen sympathetic. The audience is rooting for Kim. They will never actively like Ellen because she stands in the way of Kim getting what she wants. That character could be cut down to a very cameo role and the piece would probably be all the stronger for it.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 10:25pm

QueenAlice, but "Now That I've Seen Her" doesn't try to make Ellen sympathetic. She actually says (or sings, rather) that she will do what it takes to keep Chris.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/3/16 at 8:21am

That's true. But I suspect the authors changed it because they were worried audiences weren't sympathetic to her character, which as you point out shouldn't be a problem. Ellen doesn't need to be so "nice"  unless the authors are afraid that the audience won't feel comfortable with her becoming the eventual mother to Kim's child if she isn't depicted in a sympathetic light.  At any rate, I still maintain the character doesn't need a three-minute song to share her conflicted feelings,  which don't really have anything to do with furthering the 11th hour plot suspense- and besides her feelings all come out anyway out in her subsequent conversation with Chris.

It was interesting watching the live screening of the show- because it was filmed much like a feature film and was so immediately in the space of the characters- it reminded me that at the end of the day, Kim really is the only likeable character in the show. Chris and Ellen in their dealing with the situation play out pretty much like the self absorbed Americans you would expect them to be. A necessary plot point of course because Kim has to force the conclusion she wants for her child.

 

Updated On: 10/3/16 at 08:21 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 10/3/16 at 3:55pm

QueenAlice said: "The audience is rooting for Kim. They will never actively like Ellen because she stands in the way of Kim getting what she wants."

I assume this must basically be true because I've heard so many people say it, but I'm the odd one out here. I always end up having lots of sympathy for Ellen. I have sympathy for Kim, too - though I'm tempted to see her as just a shade less innocent than Ellen in the mess that has been created.

I don't know what that says about me. :)

[ebontoyan]

Posted: 10/3/16 at 4:07pm

I felt more sympathetic towards Ellen with the new song! When I saw Miss Saigon in the 90s I've always been pro Kim, still pro Kim but sympathetic to Ellen. I think it also helped that when I saw this show in the West End,  I was exchanging tweets with understudy Ellen who was in the show I saw. She was very nice!!!

[Dave28282]

Posted: 10/3/16 at 7:44pm

I like some of the new lyrics, such as the ones in The Movie in my mind.

I really don't understand the changes in the confrontation.

It used to be "the girl is smart, she'll understand". And "we will do what is right, right for him, right for us, right for Kim".

It is changed to: "kim is smart, she's understand'. And "We will do what is right, right for tam, and for us, and for Kim.

 

The first one 'the girl is smart" is much more tragic in my opinion, not calling her name, creating a certain distance. And in that second part, they are talking about Tam in the sentence before, so 'right for him" would be sufficient, instead of calling his name again, and the rhyme scheme is completely gone in the new one. I don't get it at all. This should never have been accepted.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 10/3/16 at 8:17pm

I felt that Kim's portrayal in the recent cinema showing made her seem a little more manipulative that other versions I've seen (like the Manila video or the bootleg from Broadway) in the "This Money's Yours" section. It seemed like Chris was trying to leave and she was physically pulling him back into the room as she said her story. I don't have the footage to look at though so I may be misremembering.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 10/4/16 at 9:15am

kdogg, you're not alone in sympathizing with Ellen.  I have always felt like she did nothing wrong - just married someone who didn't tell her that he was already (unofficially??) married, never told her about Kim, he didn't know that he had a child so Ellen didn't know either.  Then suddenly she finds out that her husband has a child somewhere that she has to be financially responsible for - seemingly hard enough news to hear, but she takes full responsibility for sharing in the financial burden of raising someone else's child even though she did not sign up for that when she married Chris.  

I also of course feel sympathy for Kim and for what she goes through, until the end when she chooses to leave her son without a mother so that he will grow up in America - that does not seem like a good trade for any child to go through.  But throughout the show, i'm generally pretty sympathetic to all of the women characters and not really any of the men - they are all depicted in a pretty negative way, ranging from paying for prostitutes to lying to their wives to cheating others to violently trying to control women.  Only Ellen and Kim come across as sympathetic (and Tam, of course).