"i wish"- into the woods

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:43pm

at the end of into the woods' finale, why does cinderella say 'i wish'? didn't she already get what she wanted?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:45pm

Isn't there always more to wish for?

The first time (I believe) she says it, it's just kind of hanging there at the end of the song, as an after-thought. That's kind of odd too, if you think about it.

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 10:45 PM

[Horton]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:46pm

I have often wondered this same thing, and I think that it is just telling us about how you are never happy with what you have. And how this theme throughout the show with them thinking what they want would make them happy, and it never really does. And so her saying "I Wish" tells the audience that although we think they are all happy in actuality, are they?

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:47pm

thank you for the input, luvtheEmcee.

i suppose there will always be more to want, but it seemed as though cinderella had just resolved her problems and was finally adjusted to life.

an after-thought... hm. seems unnecessary; sondheim shows provide more than enough thoughts for afterwards without actually inserting them into the song.

added- sorry i missed your post, horton. i optimistically hope that they are happy, since they learned that pretend-happiness won't get one very far. i am not sure why these specific characters would leave that open, but your thought is very good.

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 10:47 PM

[ALWrules]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:48pm

Well if you think about the theme of the show, it makes sense. At the end of Act I, we see the characters get their happy endings (ever after!) only to see new problems pop up in Act II. Sondheim is saying that our problems in life are never over, and new things will always come up. Cinderella says "I wish" at the end of the show because she and most of the characters have realized this and are looking ahead for more, knowing that more lies ahead, good and bad.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:51pm

Unless she's really slow, I don't think she'd not see that even if she gets her wish, she'll be eternally happy. There's no such thing; if Act I is traditional fairytale -- quintessential happiness -- and Act II is traditional fairytale dark and gone wrong, what does that say about your happy ending? You can always wish for more happiness.

ETA -- HER afterthought, not Sondheim's.

Updated On: 3/29/06 at 10:51 PM

[Piazzaslight]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:52pm

I agree with the statements above. The saying proves that what we want can sometimes never be enough, and we just want more. All the characters want more and more (The princes wanting more princesses, the Baker's wife wanting the prince, and so on and so forth.) The title says, "Into the Woods." These charaxters went into the woods to get what they want, but sometimes the woods in real life just cause more problems, amd these characters wind up having more problems in the second act. It's just the woods of life.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:55pm

it depends on how you define 'wish'. the meaning i was discussing didn't fit at all with the character; i imagined her to be saying 'well, i got everything together and i'm ok, but now i want _____'. that seems a little too selfish for her. a general hope for happiness is not the same.

of course, some people do always want more goodies, even though they're already very priviledged. maybe it depends on your background and how you approach the topic. i would like to know what mr. sondheim was really thinking.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:57pm

'The saying proves that what we want can sometimes never be enough, and we just want more.'

but this is just what the characters have learned by the end of the show. you can never be happy until you've stopped thinking about what you don't have and started being ok with what you do- 'no one is alone' and isn't that what matters?

why would cinderella want another prince after hers cheated anyway? i think she's moved on from that kind of thing.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:58pm

Wish. Desire. Could be ANYTHING. Sure, maybe she wants gifts or candy or something stupid and material because she wants to be spoiled.

But maybe she wants love and happiness and companionship and real stuff.

Sondheim's work is so multilayered and universal if you dig deeply enough that I'm SURE it's not a comment on material privilege, if it's with regard to wanting more from life. Maybe he is saying she's a selfish little brat, but... that's not much a message, you know? Maybe she's okay, but she only THINKS she's okay -- okay momentarily.

[Baine]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:01pm

*tilts head* Interesting question!

You say that it doesn't seem to be her character. Maybe she's wishing for what she CAN'T have. She can't have a husband who is faithful to her, and she wishes that he was. She might be wishing that she had never married the prince to begin with, which I think is very feasible considering the second act. It could be something as simple as one of these two options...or something even deeper. It may not necessarily mean merely that she wishes for something additional, but that she wishes for something which isn't feasible.

Also, I love your username--PoisonedRose. It's so fun! Then again, I'm a great fan of the fractured stuff, which it reminds me of...
Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:01 PM

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:01pm

i am sure she does want 'real stuff'. if she only wanted worldly goods, she would have stayed with the prince and not minded his lack of feelings for her.

we are all only ok momentarily, but i was under the impression that cinderella had gotten to a place where she could handle the ups and downs of life, that she was well-adjusted and thus wasn't obsessively wanting things like how she used to in the prologue.

i apologize for the run on sentence.

added- really interesting thoughts, baine. maybe you're on to something. is it in her resolved character to dwell on those things? i think she's hopeful and knows that "things will come out right now, we can make it so."

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:01 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:05pm

Maybe she wishes for something she can't have, which is very human -- maybe even though she's okay and in a good place at the time, she wishes that could be permanent and for stability. A fairytale is something that I think often symbolizes stability because it's ALWAYS HAPPY. No matter what, you know it's going to end well. And that's a really comforting thought, I think. So Sondheim has flipped that and made the characters much more self and situation-aware, I think. She might be well-adjusted, but that doesn't mean she doesn't realize that the adjustment is only very temporarily useful.

ETA -- "things will come out right now, we can make it so." Like I said, self and situationally aware. She knows things won't fix themselves via magic or some other warped, weird force. She's got to make it so. By wishing or searching or whatever she does.

ETA again -- could you try to use caps? Your posts are really interesting and this is a great discussion, but not using capitals is throwing me off when I'm reading.

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:05 PM

[Baine]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:10pm

I definitely think that what Emcee is saying is another huge part of it and fits in with the feel and character.

Then again, she/you always have incredibly interesting, innovative things to say. I always enjoying reading your posts...though I often don't respond due to the fact that I would rather lurk then come out and play hard ball in the big leagues, if you know what I mean....

But know that I always appreciate what you have to say!

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:10pm

i beg to differ on one point: the ability to adjust is always useful.

stability is a state of mind, i think. things are only unstable if you can't handle them.

i definitely agree about the place of stability within fairytales. that's probably why we liked them so much as children; things always worked out the way we wanted. then we grew up and like the characters of into the woods, we learned that that is not so and we no longer connect to them. maybe cinderella is like us in other ways; she wishes she could have the "easy" old way of life, but she knows that that's not the BEST way because it's fake.

that's actually sort of what baine is saying, now that i think about it.... wanting what you can't have and not being able to have it because you've removed yourself from a situation where it's feasible.


added- thank you, baine. i'm very glad you joined us. i'm somewhat new too.

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:10 PM

[Piazzaslight]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:11pm

Baine: Interesting theory. I like it.

Right before she says, "I Wish," the company said "Happily Ever After." There was one point in the second act when Jack, Little Red Ridinghood, The Baker, and Cinderella were all wishing that they didn't do the things they just did. So, maybe she isn't just wishing for something else, as I mentioned in my post a few posts above, (Or something less, as Baine said,) maybe it's for the way things could have been. Who knows. But I like the thread. Keep those views coming...

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:15pm

stability is a state of mind, i think. things are only unstable if you can't handle them.

I don't agree. I think a situation can absolutely be unstable, in addition to the capability of a person to BE and make something unstable.

It's over-extending to say that the ability to adjust is ALWAYS useful, but adaptability is almost always a positive thing. The ability to adjust and adapt is what makes a person able to find stability in a situation that itself is stable, but where he or she feels UNstable. Make sense?

I think that "fake" is also sort of a weird term, because even if it's not.... I don't know what word I'm looking for, but to these characters, it's reality, even if it's not the perfect or ultimate reality. She was fooled to think that it was ideal, but the way things were AS a way of life was not fake. And they always have the option to change their situation or change what they can of the outcome -- "things will come out right now, we can make it so." Something that fairytale characters aren't often seen to have is the ability to make their own decisions.

But yes, that's exactly what I mean about fairytales. Not only is it a fairytale setting, but he's pulled very, very familiar characters.

Thank you very much, Baine. That's sweet!

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:15 PM

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:19pm

i see your points.

as for fake, i was referring to the way cinderella would see her old life after having faced hard choices. the bliss was obviously contrived because they had marital problems (Agony: reprise) but just didn't look at them.

i must go now. this was a lovely conversation and i'm glad i got to meet some new people. goodnight all.

[Baine]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:21pm

Yep, that's exactly what I meant on the one point. She is stuck in two spots--neither is where she wishes to be. She obviously can't go back to the old way of life..or anything resembling it without the whole evil stepmother/stepsisters thing. She doesn't have her happily ever after because she can't change her present.

I just couldn't get it written down properly. Thank you for expounding upon it, PoisonedRose! :) Again, I also like what Emcee is saying. There are so many facets to this one simple line! [Hence, Why Sondheim is Amazing Reason #2,006!]

Mmm..and I joined because the topic was interesting. I've been registered on the boards for..wow, my two year anniversary is in a month! *sniffle* I was reading it long before I joined, though. I'm pretty quiet and like to lurk..esp. b/c I don't like conflict. And looking at your stats, I think you feel the same way! :)


Edit--Not just sweet, Emcee--TRUE! I bet a lot of people here would agree...and I see it often in posts! You seem like the type of person I would get along with IRL, haha! Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:21 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:42pm

As for fake, i was referring to the way cinderella would see her old life after having faced hard choices.

Well, I don't know what "better" term I'd have used, but I think I understand. She'd maybe place a bit more of a feeling of... reality? on her "new" life, because she would maybe think herself deluded or silly to have been accepting of her previous circumstance, whether her assumption there was correct or not. Bliss gone bad, by fault of... any one of a million (possibly fixable?) things. It's all about the ability to adapt and make decisions, I think, because those abilities are ultimately tied to whatever makes you wish for other things.

Now that I've made my head spin, yeah. After a good year or so of forcibly TRYING to hop on the Sondheim bandwagon, it's finally happening a bit more naturally.

Oddly enough, I was reading that "misinterpreted songs" thread today, and the "no one is alone" line came up, One poster seemed to think it was a warning song, rather than a song saying "it's okay, I love you, I'm here for you, you're not alone." S/he said that rather, the characters were saying "you're being watched; you're never alone." I don't know what I make of that, but my confusion there might only be because I LIKE the theme of always having someone there for you.

I'm so buried in this place because I'm embarassingly shy in person; easier to express myself through the written word. Hence my wordy, verbose, argumentative, there-all-the-time posts.
But thank you. :)

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:42 PM

Posted: 3/29/06 at 1:59am

clearly...the ending of the show when cinderella says "I WISH"..
for me it was "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! no more WISHING be happy with all you have!"
for ALL of the characters, WISHING for things that SHOULDN'T have necessarily been, made a lot of PROBLEMS for EVERYONE!
Try to be happy with the things life gives you. Don't be so greedy. Don't hurt people or trample them to get what you want.
CAREFUL for what you wish for, you might just get it...Its the message of the show in my opinion.
Basically...people always want more than they have..its human nature..Cinderella is no different.
when i did the show at the very end...she said I WISH and the entire company shot her a look right on the button of music and before the black out. sending the message of..."SHUT UP! have you learned NOTHING??!" LOL!!! remembering back to the VERY beginning of the she show..she is the very first person so sing.."I Wish" so really...the whole thing IS HER FAULT! hahahahahah!!!!
i am not sure what the NY companies did but that was our take. it worked for me!

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 2:34am

I always assumed Cinderella was being sarcastic. You know, when people use "I wish" to mean "Yeah right!"

COMPANY
Into the woods
Into the woods
Then out of the woods
And happy ever after

CINDERELLA
I wish!

I took it to mean that Cinderella (and perhaps the others) were no longer as innocent and naive to life as they were in Act I.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 2:37am

P.S. Also, maybe she's become disillusioned, hence her sarcasm. Just a theory.

[jasonf]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 8:06am

I actually think you're all going to far into this. Plain and simple: earlier in the show someone says (and I can't remember who it is now, though I THINK it's Cinderella): "How can you know what you want till you get what you want and you see if you like it?" The whole show is about getting what you want and then moving on to the next thing.

Additionally, from a structural point of view, the final "I wish" works because A)the show starts with it, B)Act 2 starts with it, C)Act one ends with the narrator coming forth and saying "To be continued..." The "I wish" line works as a parallel to all three of these....

[Parsley]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 11:01am

I always interpreted it at that point as an indicator that she hasn't really learned much from the last time she wished, but she still has those wishes. The others realise what happened to them each last time they made a wish and realise the sort of hassle that might conjur up if it were to happen again. It is almost as if she sings "I wish" and they are effectively screaming "Noooooo" at her.

But each interpretation is of course valid.