Does Pirelli throw the contest?

[dirty rotten guy]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 7:29pm

So, I was watching my Sweeney Todd concert DVD today and this idea just popped into my head. Before the contest, Pirelli recognizes the razors and it is infered that he now knows it is Benjamin Barker. Because he recognized this and knew he stood to gain much more than 5 pounds by blackmailing Sweeney, do you think he purposely threw the contest?

Personally, I am really on the fence. This idea never accured to me as it always seems like Pirelli is trying very hard to win the contest and is quite upset when he loses, but again, this could just be him acting. So, I am very curious as to what everyone else thinks.

[Katurian2]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 7:30pm

Good points, I personally don't believe that he threw it, as he put on such a large show of his talent. Pirelli doesn't seem like the type to disregard humiliation.

[tophertilson]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 7:48pm

Theoretically speaking, couldn't Pirelli have won the contest AND blackmailed Todd? Winning wouldn't have gotten in the way of his plan, I don't think.

TT

[dirty rotten guy]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 7:55pm

Well, the whole point of the contest was for Sweeney to beat Pirelli and prove that he was the best barbor in London so he could get buisness. If Sweeney had lost, then he would have been put to shame, lost his razors, and lost any perspective customers. If this happened, Pirelli would not be able to blackmail Sweeney into giving him part of the profits.

Updated On: 5/20/06 at 07:55 PM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 8:47pm

NO I really don't think that's true. Of course that's the actor's decision. Personally I think Pirelli's in a pinch. He comes out to do his business like he always does and finds this guy making fun of him. He doesn't realize it's Ben Barker until he sees the razors. That's what breaks his memory. I think at that point he knows who BB is, but he can't say no. He'll be humiliated. He's forced to do the contest. I think he knows he's got no chance of winning. So for him the whole contest is big and showy to basically distract people. I personally don't think Pirelli gains anything by being publically humiliated by Sweeney. Let's not forget that he challenges Sweeney to a tooth pulling contest afterward (While it's cut most of the time, it's still in the original materials as optional. Mostpeople do so because of time not plot). I don't think Pirelli would do that if he intentionally threw the contest. I think it's more feasible that it's a last effort to win back his dignity. When Sweeney beats him again, THIS is when he gets pissed and hatches his plan.

this is my own personal view on it. That's how I've played it. But again you could play it the way you've suggested.

[dirty rotten guy]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:03pm

Well, lets clarify, that in the version with the toothpulling, SWEENEY is the one who challenges Pirelli to a tooth pulling BEFORE the contest, so it doesnt really count as a last ditch attempt by Pirelli. I understand the belief that Pirelli has too much dignity, however, I think he is ultimately just out for money rather than dignity ( as show by his elixer being piss and ink). And again, by blackmailing Sweeney, Pirelli would be able to make great deals of money by doing nothing more than come by to collect it each week.

Updated On: 5/20/06 at 09:03 PM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:19pm

So he intentionally humiliates himself? I don't think so. I don't buy it. Because now he's lost all of HIS customers. So the people are either going to go to him or Sweeney. If he beat Sweeney he'd have 100% of the profits as before. Now that Sweeney won, he'll take 50% of Sweeney's profits, WITH a fairly large cut of his own profits. I personally wouldn't take a cut in my own profits just to get Half of someone else's POTENTIAL profits.
Updated On: 5/20/06 at 09:19 PM

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:23pm

You know, I never would`ve thought of it. YES I think he did!!!

[dirty rotten guy]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:31pm

But he gets 50% of Sweeney's profits without having to work at all. I feel that he fact that he could live well without being weighed down without any kind of work would be a huge incentive to him.

[gumbo2]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:35pm

But it seems like he's put so much effort into improving his reputation, and there's no garauntee that Sweeney will make a huge profit, so it doesn't seem like a great business decision. And it doesn't seem like Pirelli hates his job. During his song isn't he talking about how much skill and grace it takes to "shave-a the face"?

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:38pm

Well we hardly know that. I don't think 50% of a Barber's salary would be living well. It's the mid to late 1800's in London. WE don't really have the rates of a barber from then(although Lovett says times are hard). It's not like he works much now. Pissing and mixing with Ink to sell a hair product. I think that's where he's getting his bread and butter. He doesn't have Toby out there peddlin' shaves. Besides once he beat Sweeney he could either use his razors or sell em for 5 maybe 10 quid.
Updated On: 5/20/06 at 09:38 PM

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:51pm

It's 50% PLUS his regular salary, so Pirelli is just gaining money.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 5/20/06 at 9:55pm

Do you think people would come back to Pirelli after that debacle? I don't. Back then word of mouth was advertising. People would be avoiding the guy with the piss and ink like small pox. I think the reason why Pirelli blackmails him is because he has no other means of making money.

[TinyDancer]

Posted: 6/2/06 at 12:02pm

Updated On: 9/14/06 at 12:02 PM