Bass-Baritones, Baritones, and Lead Roles- Page 2

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 12:20pm

If you get over his talking down to Seth (I love Kudisch in interviews, he always lectures the interviewer), he talks a lot about the differences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGK-cKxjClU

[aimeric]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 1:00pm

Pierre in "Natasha, Pierre" is written as a baritone role, isn't he?  (And Andrei, in the brief time that he's there?)

That's one thing I always miss in a lot of modern musicals, is a broader range of voice parts represented in the lead roles.  I love "Next to Normal," but it's like 4 tenors...I think there's hardly a male note in that whole show that's too low for me, and I'm an alto!

Speaking of the plight of baritones, can we also get some more interesting alto roles?  And I mean real altos/contraltos, not altos who belt their faces off.  I've been listening a lot to the '90s revival of "Show Boat," and I absolutely love the keys they used for Julie in that...they're so deliciously low for the female voice.

[JennH]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 1:54pm

mrkringas said: "This is just one of those areas of great debate isnt it?

Best to avoid the labels and say "this is my vocal range"

However what people look for when casting is a vocal quality. For example both James Barbour and John Barrowman have played the Beast in BatB. However James Barbour has an unmistakable heavier tone to his voice. Whereas Barrowman is very light and "tenor" sounding. Having heard Barbour and seen Barrowman they both do well with this character. The point is though that certain characters really look for one quality over the other.

The Beast seems to be one of the roles that attracts all sorts really! However I cant imagine hearing John Barrowman sing the role of Javert in LesMis can you? He has the range for it and it only has that one really low note in Confrontation. But it just wouldnt sound right. Barbour would be perfect though.

Sorry for using James Barbour as an example but he makes such a good contrast with Barrowman."

This right here. However even then, as you said some of these roles have attracted all type of voice colors, because as mentioned its not wholly about range but vocal quality and timbre, as well as tessitura. I PERSONALLY do not like the lighter, pingy (not knocking this kind of voice, it has it place and many of them especially now) tenors in roles like Phantom, Raoul, Beast, etc. mostly because it almost defeats the point of the character itself. Obviously they have to have some range to them as they have some higher notes to hit, but that's not where the voices singing this stuff need to live, tessitura wise. A super tenor-ey Raoul isn't wholly wrong in terms of character type, but I still like a warmer baritenor. However, I've seen some clips from the B reel from B and the B at Music Circus, and I must say Synder isn't doing badly at all, as he was able to access the water baritone aspects of that role, which is kind of impressive when he's as tenor as all get out. 

[JennH]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 2:04pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Munk--

Of course there are countless baritone principal roles. But the argument here I believe is that in modern musicals, THE male lead (rather than a "second lead" or a supporting character) is a usually a tenor.

P.S.: Although they lowered the keys for Jekyll/Hyde when Robert Cuccioli took over from Anthony Warlow, the licensed version is in the original keys, which are DEFINITELY tenor territory."

Um, Robert originated this role on Broadway, Warlow has never done it on stage...there was supposed to be that 20th anniversary production with him doing it and Jackie Burns as Lucy, but I have no idea what happened to it, because I will pay every dollar I have to see Warlow FINALLY do this role in the actual show. Are you sure it wasn't lowering the keys for *gag* The Hoff?? I still can't believe that ever happened.

I'd say J/H is the opposite of Beast, Phantom, Raoul, because while the literal RANGES for these roles are more or less the same, it's where they live in that range that makes all the difference, aka the tessitura. J/H 1000% percent lives in tenor territory and SUPER powerhouse tenor territory at that, which makes that role a BITCH for a male voice. The others three roles live in baritone to baritenor territory. The kind of tessitura a male voice lives in naturally in their on voice will dictate how 'easily' they could sing these roles. Of course Warlow is an alien from another world and can sing in any of his ranges COMFORTABLY and act the **** out of every one of those roles. 

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 2:38pm

JennH said: "The Distinctive Baritone said: "Munk--

Of course there are countless baritone principal roles. But the argument here I believe is that in modern musicals, THE male lead (rather than a "second lead" or a supporting character) is a usually a tenor.

P.S.: Although they lowered the keys for Jekyll/Hyde when Robert Cuccioli took over from Anthony Warlow, the licensed version is in the original keys, which are DEFINITELY tenor territory."

Um, Robert originated this role on Broadway, Warlow has never done it on stage...there was supposed to be that 20th anniversary production with him doing it and Jackie Burns as Lucy, but I have no idea what happened to it, because I will pay every dollar I have to see Warlow FINALLY do this role in the actual show. Are you sure it wasn't lowering the keys for *gag* The Hoff?? I still can't believe that ever happened.

I'd say J/H is the opposite of Beast, Phantom, Raoul, because while the literal RANGES for these roles are more or less the same, it's where they live in that range that makes all the difference, aka the tessitura. J/H 1000% percent lives in tenor territory and SUPER powerhouse tenor territory at that, which makes that role a BITCH for a male voice. The others three roles live in baritone to baritenor territory. The kind of tessitura a male voice lives in naturally in their on voice will dictate how 'easily' they could sing these roles. Of course Warlow is an alien from another world and can sing in any of his ranges COMFORTABLY and act the **** out of every one of those roles. 

 

"

Had to QFT. Was just listening to one of his CDs today. I do wish he would come to broadway in a decent role again.

[CallMeAl2]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 3:03pm

JennH said: "However even then, as you said some of these roles have attracted all type of voice colors, because as mentioned its not wholly about range but vocal quality and timbre, as well as tessitura. "

Exactly. It's not really about who can hit the notes (although, of course that is required). As you say it is more the timbre and where the resonance is. A composer expects a baritone to have power and richness towards the bottom and middle of the range and then a thinner, lighter sound on top. This is often used to reinforce character qualities of maturity, masculinity, and authority. 

A tenor might have exactly the same range, but the power and clarity is on the top and resonance drops off in the lower register. This can emphasize a more youthful or sensitive character, however it has also become synonymous with a more contemporary style.

 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 3:47pm

Isn;t Phil from GHD a baritone role?

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 11:41pm

Probably the only lead in a musical that I'd call an Honest to God Bass is Giorgio in Passion.

[ZellMorrowsPledge]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 11:46pm

poisonivy2 said: "Isn;t Phil from GHD a baritone role?

 

"

Have you heard Hope from that show?

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 11:59pm

ZellMorrowsPledge said: "poisonivy2 said: "Isn;t Phil from GHD a baritone role?

 

"

Have you heard Hope from that show?

 

"

I've seen the show. Andy Karl just doesn't sound like a tenor to me. 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 12:03am

Re: Jekyll and Hyde...

I've been a "Jekkie" for over twenty years. Yes, I know Warlow never got to do it onstage. I heard he got tired of waiting and moved on.

But the keys he sings in on the album are frequently a half step or whole step higher than what Cucciolli sang, and the Warlow keys are what's in the MTI score. Warlow is one of those mutants who defy voice type and can sing anything, but the tessa tura of the Warlow/licensed score is pretty high. 

[matthewblack]

Posted: 10/21/17 at 6:32pm

Marius is not a baritone, and nor is the beast. Check out the final note of 'If I Can't Love Her'. Listen to 'Empty Chairs At Empty Tables'.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 10/21/17 at 6:48pm

Pierre from Great Comet? 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/21/17 at 6:49pm

"Empty Chairs" is not all that high. I don't believe it goes any higher than an E, which IMO is still in the Baritone range. Even "If I Can't Love Her," which goes to an F, though beginning to get up there, is still doable for most baritones. Consider that tenors in today's musicals are frequently hitting Gs, As, and even Bs. 

 

Updated On: 10/21/17 at 06:49 PM