A White Gay Man in Black Face — Page 5

Once again we are presented with a false equivalency which veers away from the discussion about a white guy performing in black face in a mocking stereotype of a certain social strata of African American women.

This is not a discussion of Don Imus's racism versus some rapper's sexism.

False equivalencies.

And again, we're back to the message board staple of "as long as black rappers 'get' to call women hos, Don Imus gets to too, and come to think of it, a white guy trading in racist stereotypes WHILE WEARING BLACKFACE is a moral equivalency of these things." It's not and they're not.

I'll tell you the thing that most surprises me, it's that Knipp went public with his unease at being the "raisin" at which groups of high paying rich white folks get to feel validated in their racism. I mean, I'm surprised, because he has resisted and protested too much in the past that that isn't the major function of his act.

I find the comparisons to Borat to not be logical in this discussion either. Unlike Cohen, who uses his Borat character to subtly unmask prejudices and biases in the culture around him, the only possible unmasking of prejudices that Knipp could be doing is in the white members of his audience who laugh and laugh at the funny names of Shirley's children. In other words, if THAT'S the social satire, then the jokes on the white people (like those of you in this thread) who so enjoy Shirley.

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So that is the question I asked earlier.

Is the issue that he is a white dude parodying that type of black woman, or is it thet he does so in front of a specific audience.
Would it be as offensive if he did his routine at a comedy club in NY?

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No, the actual question is how can a white man IN BLACKFACE and mocking racial stereotypes NOT be racist? Clearly, even Knipp's conscience is being pricked by this sudden epiphany.

ETA "I guess the only non-racist/prejudice comics I can think of are Christian comics." That's complete and utter hogwash, MA, absolutely untrue. And again, traipses down that slippery message board slope of "everybody's racist so THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND A WHITE MAN IN BLACKFACE MOCKING POOR BLACK WOMEN." Again, false equivalencies.

But at least you admitted it's racist.

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Updated On: 5/22/07 at 11:28 PM

I wonder what comics aren't racist/prejudice and don't tell racist/prejudice jokes? (Serious inquiry, not passive-aggresiveness.)

I dunno. Kathy Griffin? Unless you say she's prejudiced against celebrities.

Elayne Boosler, perhaps.

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I'm genuinely trying to hear you Namo, so please don't read this as any kind of sarcasm.

So, you are saying that regardless of the whole white southern male audience it is still a racist act.

But why can't it be viewed as satire?
Really, what I'm thinking is that when I first saw the clip I laughed. I see women like that all the time here in VA. My first reaction was, he so nailed that stereotype, lol.
I think the reason I wasn't immediately bothered by the fact that he was white is b/c so many comics make jokes about other races in their routines. But they tend to pick on everyone. Equal oppurtunity offenders I call them.

If, for example, he made fun of gay stereotypes as well, would this be any more palatable? Or b/c he does only a black woman that it seems more racist.

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It would be different. It would not be a person from the dominant racial culture mocking the stereotypes of an historically oppressed racial minority.

Whether or not Lawrence or Murphy would be misogynist (which would of course be the dominant GENDER mocking the gender that has been historically oppressed) is another question entirely.

And of course, another false equivalency.

ETA "If, for example, he made fun of gay stereotypes as well, would this be any more palatable? Or b/c he does only a black woman that it seems more racist."

It's a major difference. It's the difference between in-group parody and out-group hostility. Why people can't see that I just don't know.

And why the fact that there is any question but that blackface Shirley Q. Liquor is a racist construct, I simply don't understand.

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Updated On: 5/22/07 at 11:53 PM

Hmm, not a false equivalency, but we're all entitled to our opinions!

I respectfully disagree with you, Namo.

I know I've said this a million times, but a lot of how I view it has to do with WHERE he performs it. I'd be willing to bet that Martin Lawerence would not perform as this character solely to a white Southern audience.

"Would someone briefly state answers to the following questions"

Read the article linked in my first post.

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I don't see why now, in 2007, he feels the need to don blackface. Why can't he just do stand up, and impersonate said woman. Blackface has an undeniably racist history - and the fact that he does it in front of an all white audience heightens the inherent racism in the act.

Yes, there's a bit of a double standard - but black face has a history that you cannot ignore.

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LostLeander, we don't need your kind in this thread.

I've always found his alter-ego Betty Butterfield more funny.

She makes fun of the Baptists, Mormons, Amish, Pentecostals, Episcopalians, and customers of Wal-Mart.

Much more palatable in my opinion.

I'm so glad I read this all the way to the end...cause I was going to take on tazber for a comment he made about watching the clip and laughing and leaving it at that.

Just because we laugh, does that make it ok? Do we not have the capacity to look at ourselves for laughing at something and, perhaps, realizing we have our own prejudices and racist tendencies that should be, at the very least, acknowledges, if not addressed?

My looking at my own 'race' (which is and of itself a false construct based on...what? pigmentation?) and realizing that they (rich white people...me included) are racist is not racism. Racism is about the other. It's is NOT about one's own 'race'. Best12 brought in the word prejudice. That may be a better word to describe what I say about the rich white audiences...but it is in no way racists...by any definition of the word.

And I keep bringing up 'rich' because racism is inextricably tied up with the financial power structure of this nation. So when Jaily makes a statement that rich white people are making Knipp a rich white person as a way of some defense, it shocks me. Knipp is getting rich by putting on blackface and mocking black women (affectionately, apperently).

As for wanting an African-American voice in this thread, can that seriously be construed as racist? This is another false equivalancy, but if your ENT told you you had breast cancer, wouldn't you want to go to an oncologist...just to get a second opinion? Why? Because of experience. I would like to hear from someone whose entire life-experience has been informed by the systemic racism that exists in this country. Just to get a different perspective.

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In that case, Shirley should sit out the episode where Natalie loses her virginity.

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