A White Gay Man in Black Face — Page 4

There is no 'reverse racism' going on here...because, at least as far as I can tell, those of us with questions about it are white. And rich and Southern are not race classifications.


And Jaily...some of us don't want to see ANYTHING done to Knipp. I personally don't expect Knipp to change one iota of his act. But I do think a healthy discussion on why this performer's act might be fraught with meaning (intended or unintended) is something that can never get tired.

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Updated On: 5/22/07 at 04:51 PM

Especially when considering that this person is being hired to do this act for a rich, white crowd? It is certainly one thing to do your act in an open venue where anyone can buy a ticket. I find it more than a little disconcerting when the 'mammy' character is hired for a private party for rich, white people. That doesn't deserve even the least bit discussion? Especially when considering that this person is being hired to do this act for a rich, white crowd? It is certainly one thing to do your act in an open venue where anyone can buy a ticket. I find it more than a little disconcerting when the 'mammy' character is hired for a private party for rich, white people. That doesn't deserve even the least bit discussion?

You mentioned white people a couple of times, robbiej--and make the assumption that they're all there to ridicule a black character--you don't think that's racist?

And write your letter, Stick--who knows?

I just don't think it's the responsibility of the artist to control audience perception--it's near impossible.

And Kringas--my "somewhat removed" example about NAKED BOYS was this--if you do a show for one reason and the audience comes for another, do you quit the show if you find that audience reson distasteful?

I'm talking about what the audience comes away with--which seems to be the crux of the debate--not that what Shirley does is racist, but that she has knowingly performed for racist people for sheer profit.

And I think that whatever the audience thinks or does is ultimately out of her hands. Just like it would be out of your hands (hee hee) if the audiences of NAKED BOYS came to see YOU so they could have a good mental image to spank the monkey to...

By the way...I have used the term 'rich, white people' because Knipp himself referred to these particular crowds as 'Wealthy white people'. I'm just trying to drive home the point.

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"It's not racsim if it is my own race. It may be something else...but it's not racism."

This way of thinking baffles me. It's a MUCH greater issue that I doubt will EVER be settled because folks are so polarized with their views, but it seems to be the core issue that sparked this discussion.

"Now...I may be acting like a judgemental assh*ole against 'my own kind'...but I'm not being a racist."

Hah! Okay! I like that. We'll use that terminology from this point forward!

"If I were to create a character that reinforced negative stereotypes I didn't intend to reinforce and I found my audience taking those stereotypes at face value and celebrating them, then yeah, I'd rethink my place in the work."

Some performers would think exactly like you, others would take the approach that they can not control how their performance would be perceived. And if you changed your show and it STILL was not being received as you intended, would you alter it yet again until you received the desired result from everyone?

I understand where you're coming from Kringas, but I don't feel Mr. Knipp should change his (or her, in reference to Shirley's) performance because of how it's perceived by some. I take it as a complete farce on how blacks have long been perceived by other races in the south, specifically whites. However, I know many who think it's an accurate portrayal of a black person, and think it's humorous for that reason.

I haven't suggested he stop what he's doing.

Some performers would think exactly like you, others would take the approach that they can not control how their performance would be perceived. And if you changed your show and it STILL was not being received as you intended, would you alter it yet again until you received the desired result from everyone?

I guess it would depend on what I was creating. As I'm not a comedian or performance artist, I don't generally create characters completely from scratch.

I still wish that more actual African-Americans would weigh in on this discussion, since it's sort of taking place in a vacuum.

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"It's not racsim if it is my own race."

Whoa!

And Kringas, prizing the opinion of a black person over a white person is racist. I know WHY you'd say that, as to get the perspective of the "offended" party, but I don't think the opinion of a black person is any more valid than a white person, especially one like me, who lives as a minority in my neighborhood. I know what it's like to be watched in the store, yelled at from stoops, made fun of for walking down the street, having snowballs thrown at me--racism isn't confined to a certain race or a certain area.

I'm not saying that to chastise, but to say that hey, all kinds of racism exist.

"I'd wonder why - like I always do when I hear of the people who go to see plays with nudity in them specifically for the nudity - they didn't just rent a porn, but I wouldn't find it cause for alarm. "

I also wonder why rich white racists would hire a drag queen to make fun of black people--seems like the long way around when they could just watch old Amos n Andy, Stepin Fetchit or hire a regular comedian to do racist comedy--why go to the gay guy?

"why go to the gay guy?"

It's considered 'chic' in some circles....

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Let's put aside the lengthy discussions in the thread Kringas linked at the beginning of this one which discussed how "racism" is a tool of the majority used to oppress minorities and the fact that when people in disenfranchised groups crititiques those in power (which implicates those who have similar qualities to those in power) it is not a reversal of a systemic, institutional tool that oppresses others. "Reverse racism" is a false construct.

What I'd like to know, and I nominate JailYardGuy for this task since he's so proud of the fact that he listens to Knipp's character every (I believe a period was insterted here) single (here, too) day (ditto) to try to answer this:

How is a white man in blackface mocking the names of 19 black children that his black welfare queen character gave birth to not racist? How? No one has been able to make that clear.

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"The audience for his show was mostly white when he was on Comedy Central. If he had restricted it to a BET show would that have been acceptable?"

Because black people only watch BET. I know that's probably not what you meant but I'm not sure where you got your stats from. I work in a school where the majority of the students are african american and they ALL watched his show...you still can't walk down the hallway without hearing students quoting it.

Updated On: 5/22/07 at 10:06 PM

I think the first thing that needs to be cleared up is that NO ONE in this thread has said he should stop performing this character. Let's throw that out the window right now. NO ONE has said that. Some of us have expressed a little bit of unease with the whole thing, in varying levels and for different reasons. So just stop using that within your arguments, please, because it has nothing to do with that. If indeed Knipp is doing something Borat-style, isn't the point that we should be talking about it?

I could be black. Do we need "actual African-Americans" to make this conversation more relevant or valid?

You very well could be. If you are, I apologize, but I thought I recalled you having a picture of yourself once as your avatar.
If you feel free sharing your race, so be it. For the record, I'm gay and white - like 90% of the people posting in this thread. It's not that a black opinion brings more validity, but it does bring, well, a black opinion, which I don't think is uncalled for in a thread about a big white man in blackface.

And Kringas, prizing the opinion of a black person over a white person is racist.

That's cool. I live in a major American city and I think I have to confront my own racism every day. It's not like I think I racists thoughts all day long, but it happens here and there. Am I proud of these thoughts? Of course not. But I have them, and that doesn't invalidate all the white neurotic liberal guilt I feel most of the time.

And not to make this a pissing match, but I'm a "minority" in my neighborhood, too. It's a great workout for the above mentioned liberal guilt.

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Updated On: 5/22/07 at 10:54 PM