A White Gay Man in Black Face
A White Gay Man in Black Face
A White Gay Man in Black Face#1
Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:22am
A very interesting atricle on Shirley Q. Liquor aka Chuck Knipp. I put some of the interesting passges and quotes below, but I recommend reading the whole article.
Knipp occasionally shifts into character during interviews, especially when he gets nervous. And he gets nervous talking about hiring himself out for private events for rich people because, while he likes to defend his act by claiming that laughter is the best medicine for racial ills, he knows, deep down, that any redeeming social value in his comedy depends entirely on the intentions of his audience, and whether they're laughing with Shirley or at her.
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"Wealthy white people are starting to hire me for private parties, where I play the raisin in a bowl of oatmeal," he says. "From the way they interact with me, I can see that my being there as Shirley makes them feel it's acceptable to openly mock black people in a way they otherwise would not, and that does cause me to have second thoughts. If what I'm doing is truly hurtful, then I need to stop."
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I was incensed to see all these white folks nonchalantly giggling at a white man in blackface drag," says Brooks, who is black and a lesbian. "It's amazing to me that even the rampant homophobia in the South doesn't put a dent in the sense of racial privilege presumed by the white gay men who patronize this clear example of racism and misogyny disguised as entertainment."
Article
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#2
Posted: 5/22/07 at 5:36am
This is slightly on topic, but at the same time not . . . "black face" is, understandably, considered very racist and seen a very negative light to many, many, many people. But, why was a movie like "White Chicks" able to do the opposite and go "white face" and it is seen as an acceptable thing to do? To me that is very hypocritical.
**steps off soapbox**
Now back to your regularly scheduled program. 
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#2
Posted: 5/22/07 at 7:03am
I wonder what people would think of a black white man in gay face.
Or better yet, a black-white-gay-left handed-slightly balding-overly loud-left wing-midget in asian face.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#3
Posted: 5/22/07 at 9:44amtaz, if I had a nickel for every time I'd seen THAT at a party...
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#4
Posted: 5/22/07 at 9:48amHeck, that's just another Thursday night in the Castro.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#5
Posted: 5/22/07 at 9:54am
Here's an earlier discussion on Shirley Q. Liquor.
As I've said before, several people whose opinions I generally respect are a fan of Shirley Q Liquor, but I've always been vexed by the popularity of this character.
I Love Shirley Q Liquor
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#6
Posted: 5/22/07 at 10:03am
"This is slightly on topic, but at the same time not . . . "black face" is, understandably, considered very racist and seen a very negative light to many, many, many people. But, why was a movie like "White Chicks" able to do the opposite and go "white face" and it is seen as an acceptable thing to do? To me that is very hypocritical. "
White men are not an oppressed minority...that's the difference. There's a history to black face in this country that doesn't exist for "white face".
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#7
Posted: 5/22/07 at 10:03am
>>> But, why was a movie like "White Chicks" able to do the opposite and go "white face" and it is seen as an acceptable thing to do? To me that is very hypocritical.
Well I'm not sure at the time coloured people were allowed to respond in any way to Blackface. They were enslaved at the time after all. At least now people have a more level playing field. Most have the opportunity to respond parody or personal attack.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#8
Posted: 5/22/07 at 10:07am
Shirley's funny. Not hilarious like Alexyss hilarious, but funny.
I still think Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's is the ultimate stereotype performance.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#9
Posted: 5/22/07 at 10:27am
Whoa...welcome to like, 2000!
My friends and I back in San Francisco were like, the Church of Shirley. Went to every show, and I have every. single. CD. Still listen to her almost every day...
(And how y'all durrin', anyway? Tell y'mama'n'em I axe her how SHE durrin'!)
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#10
Posted: 5/22/07 at 11:15am
Knipp clearly states that he believes the acceptability of Liquor depends upon whther the audience is laughing with her or at her.
And then he goes on to say that he performs at a lot of private parties for Southern folks who are clearly using Liquor as an excuse to openly mock black people. And he says that's not okay.
Yet he performs for them anyway and collects his paycheck.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#11
Posted: 5/22/07 at 11:32amHe's a hypocrite.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#12
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:01pm
I know it's not clear cut across the board this way, but it does seem that when Shirley Q comes up, it's mostly whites defending the act. I know a lot of people will say, "But I have black friends who think it's funny," but I wish a few of them would post that on here, as opposed to just hearsay.
I pride myself on having a dark sense of humor. I enjoy hearing and making jokes that push the envelope. A laugh from shock is often a wonderful sound, whether it's my own laughter or the laughter of others.
The last time I perused Shirley Q's website which was admittedly over a year ago, it consisted of clips from her act, set to odd video montages. There's a song about her nineteen children (They have names like Lemonjello and Oranjello, Velveeta and SH*Thead - pronounced Shi-theed, of course) called "Who Is My Baby's Daddy?" Again, maybe I'm dense. Maybe this another case where I dissent with the verdict of the court of public opinion, but I'm just not getting it. At all.
Maybe I have no business worrying about this. I mean, I find Sarah Silverman funny. She's quite polarizing, and I can certainly understand the argument against her brand of humor, even if I don't agree with that argument.
Going into the world of Shirley Q., though, I get this weird sense of deja vu. I had the same feeling when I'd watch the "Men on Film" sketches from In Living Color. Even though, unlike with Shirley Q., I'd often find the "Men on Film" amusing, I can't help but feel there's an undercurrent of mean-spiritedness to this. It's surreal. It's creepy. Something just doesn't feel right here.
Is it performance art? Is there a point to this? Is Knipp really, as RuPaul says, "paying a loving homage to the southern black women that he obviously grew up around" or is this simply a modern day minstrel show? Are the hoary jokes (Lemonjello and Oranjello. Really? Hasn't everyone heard that story?) part of some sort of social commentary, or is it just any excuse to mock black people, all under the guise of good-natured ribbing?
So, is this just my bleeding heart, knee-jerk liberal self falling victim to the PC Police? There's a nagging feeling inside me telling me that it's not.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#13
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:05pmThe act is racist, bigoted, and plays on EVERY negative stereotype about African- Americans. I can’t understand how she’s stayed around this long without A-A’s calling her out.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#14
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:17pm
If we can't make fun of blacks and gays who can we laugh at?
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#15
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:25pm
"Raised a Presbyterian, Knipp is now an ordained Quaker deacon. Critics who assume he's a hateful racist might be surprised to learn that Knipp is one of only a handful of chaplains in the South willing to preside over same-sex marriages."
Gays can't be racists? What a terrible sentence.
I don't know about this one. My visceral reaction to it, was that it made me a little queasy. And the fact that he plays a largely rich, white, southern audience does not sit well with my idea of squelching racism.
I don't think a room full of white people laughing at a white man in blackface is helping to solve anything - perhaps if it were a diverse crowd laughing together?
Tricky subject, indeed.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#16
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:35pm
I hate threads like this. I was all content to laugh and enjoy and them people post oppinions that make a lot of sense and I am forced to reconsider.
I wasn't buying the liberal line there, but then I thought what it would be like if he were dressing up like a Jew and making fun of Jewish streotypes. That would be offensive. And there is no reason why this shouldn't be equally offensive.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#17
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:39pm
Gays can't be racists? What a terrible sentence.
Yeah, I wasn't quite sure what make of that either, as I'm known plenty of gays who were virulently racist.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#18
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:39pm
I don't think it's tricky subject at all--intent is everything--Shirley cannot be held respopnsible for the intent of her audience--any more than Ozzy Osborne is responsible if someone kills another after listening to his music. Shirley presents an act--not altogether different from the act Jackie Mason does--"tired old jokes" to a specific audience.
Laurence Olivier may have donned black makeup in order to play Othello, but nobody accuses him of racism--nor should they--he's trying to accurately portray the character as best he can.
Now Shirley's makeup might be applied with the finesse of Margot Kidder on a caffeine jag, but that's more of a matter of aesthetics than politics.
Just as Betty (another of his characters) satirizes the conventions of organized religion, Shirley satirizes the racism of white people--she presents a cartoon of the "welfare mother who drives a Cadillac" stereotype many white people have--Shirley doesn't invite people to laugh at her and those like her--she is really mocking it. Shirley is so over the top as to be ridiculous, like a drag queen (duh). RuPaul isn't the only black celeb to defend Shirley--altough why does the black celeb's opinion carry more weight? Isn't that racist in itself?
She's BORAT without the critical approval....
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#19
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:43pm
I think the reality is that there is no malice behind the work. I know a lot of people think there are connections between words and violence, but telling people to shut their mouths is not tolerance. There have to better ways to get past prejudice, (maybe satire?). People that dabble in this kind work with this kind of material have to know and understand the slippery slope they are on.
If it were someone making fun of AIDS victims, Jews or gay lynching I don’t think we would have the same response on this board. I’ve personally been called an anti-Semite several times on this board never once coming close to the remarks of Shirley.
Two days ago there was a thread about Oprah and how she made a racial “gaffe.” It is so entirely frustrating to hear the same talking points from white people time and time again.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#20
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:48pm
"She's BORAT without the critical approval...."
And without the humor.
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#21
Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:49pm
'I don't think it's tricky subject at all--intent is everything--Shirley cannot be held respopnsible for the intent of her audience--any more than Ozzy Osborne is responsible if someone kills another after listening to his music.'
In theory, I get that. In this specific case, I'm not so sure how well that applies. It's one thing to put out a product that can be consumed by the masses, the intent of which can be bent to suit a particular listener's agenda. Even doing a show on your 'home turf', with your knowing audience keeps the intent pretty pure. But when hired by rich, white people to do a specific, private showing (one which leaves a bad taste in the performer's mouth, as Knipp seems to suggest), then I think the performer has become complicit in the racism.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#22
Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:00pm
And that's your 2 cents Theatre Diva--I don't FRIENDS is funny, but that doesn't mean it isn't.
I'm not surprised you been called an anti-Semite, mejust--though i don't think you are--nor do I believe the person(s) who said that really believe you are either--you just don't support Israel without question, and that to many people is anti-Semitic--why, I don't know--it's just another form of blind patriotism.
"But when hired by rich, white people to do a specific, private showing (one which leaves a bad taste in the performer's mouth, as Knipp seems to suggest), then I think the performer has become complicit in the racism. "
So it would have been okay if the audience was poor and black? And if he felt bad after that show, he knows not to do a show for those people again. I've performed for and WITH people who were less than saints, but I did the show anyway. I also did the show when we had Phelpsies outside protesting us fags, some of which were likely IN the theatre as well. You can't do a Gandhi-dar check on every person you entertain.
I just can't see how people are offended by someone who clearly means no harm--nobody thinks Shirley is real except people who are already racists--and there's nothing Shirley or any other drag queen can do about that--nor should they be made to feel as if they are responsible for the amount of racism in America--she's a drag performer for god's sake--not the UN ambassador--I think solving America's race issue is a little out of her jurrrrrisdiction.
She's also making fun of a culture--as a member of the white trash, I can affirm that many of the things Shirley jokes about are funny because they remind me of MY family and upbringing. It DOES cross race lines, believe it or not.
re: A White Gay Man in Black Face#23
Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:02pm
"She's BORAT without the critical approval...."
EXACTLY, lildogs.
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
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