Anybody ever have knee problems/surgery? A rant from Borstal

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 2:58pm

Okay, here's the deal: I twisted the f**k out of my knee on New Years Eve due to a fall at work. Did the emergency room, the follow-up and, at last, the MRI and then at last again...the follow up to the MRI. All this crap took about three weeks. During that time, my knee has been feeling gradually better, with me able to walk on it a lot more, do stairs and even hitting the exercise bike at the gym (although the elliptical is still a little painful). The only problem I was really experiencing was some limping and stiffness in the morning and I have trouble extending the leg to its full length. I was pretty convinced that no surgery was in the future.

Not so, says the doctor of the day! Well, actually he didn't really say it, really definitely. What the f**k is up with all these wishy-washy Orthopedic doctors?? He said, "You could have the surgery, but you're probably always going to have a little trouble with it. It's up to you." What does this mean? Get the surgery or not? I asked him what he recommended and he shrugged and said "You're young. Get the surgery." The whole time I felt like he was anxious to rush me out of the room as he had dozens of patients in this office referred to me by the hospital, which is a complete zoo. Oh, and if I do get the surgery, I'm going to have to have six months of physical therapy three times a week.

I have an appointment with the actual surgeon at this office.......a month from now. Oh, but sometimes he gets called into an emergency and has to cancel.

So frustrated right now I could scream. Not to mention I'm totally depressed about all this.

Anyone have any advice or care to share their experiences with the Orhtopedic Circus? Especially in New York?

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:18pm

OK What exactly is the orthopod recommending? Knee replacement?
Fixation? Cartlige replacement? What would be the benefit to having the surg vs not? If you wait and the situation deteriorates can you still have the surg? with how much % of improvement? and what is the precises name of the promblem to be fixed? theses questions you need answere.d
Good Luck

[thetinymagic2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:23pm

Don't get too nervous, Borstal!
I had arthroscopic knee surgery about 5 yrs. ago and it was a snap!
Now, depending on your exact diagnosis from your MD, ...your scenario may vary.
There are serious knee problems, and then there's problems, like I had, (and maybe you have).
My MRI showed "miniscus" tears."Arthroscopic surgery" is a miracle. They put you under, the surgery takes about 20 minutes. He just drills 2 tiny holes in the area, fixes it w/microscopic instruments,, you awake, and go home the same day, about 2 hrs. later. No Pain!! I'm serious.
Yes, I did have to go thru 3-4 wks of 3x weekly physical therapy, but that was a cinch also. My surgeon in NYC was Elliot Hershman, Lenox Hill Hospital. Luckily, this genius is the team doctor of the NY Jets, operates on Olympic athletes, and movie stars, so I felt quite confident. And his office accepted my HMO!
There ARE knee injuries which are more serious, but it doesn't sound, so far, like yours is like that. I'm sure I'm a lot older than you, and, yes, initially I was scared...but I've had cancer surgery also, many yrs. prior, so this was a piece of cake.
Arthroscopic surgery is now done on other body parts as well, since it is minimally non-invasive.
Get a second opinion, as always, and ask many questions. Hope this helps. PM me if you need more info. Goodl uck.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:24pm

Its an ACL tear, which I have been researching online and the facts are...you guessed it...wishy-washy. The doc wasn't lying: I guess it really is up to me. Apparently, surgery can improve the knee, but it doesn't for some people. Grrrrr!!!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:25pm

Find an aggressive acupuncturist and see if he/she can treat you before going through surgery.

I tore a ligament in my shoulder in late 2007, and basically had the same choice - go get cut, let it heal naturally, or seek alternatives.

With acupuncture (which unfortunately was not covered by insurance), I have regained about 95% of the mobility, though I do have some limited stiffness after certain activities. I am sure that if I did my exercises regularly, that would diminish as well.

I think you are in Arizona, and if so, I can also recommend a great PT shop that does amazing work on chronic pain (though they are in Sedona). One of my best friends works there, and they have been able to do amazing things for people with pain.

The acupuncturist I use was an orthopedic surgeon in China.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:27pm

Borstal, I have a similar story which may help.

I injured my knee while shooting a commercial. Sometimes I couldn't even walk, yet other times it hardly hurt. Sometimes the pain was down my shin and not even in the knee at all.

I was referred to that place on Univ. and 12 st. for a doctor who recommended an MRI. When I went for the results, he said I had a torn miniscus (which is what everyone on earth gets). He pointed to it on the xray. I didn't see anything. Now remember this, Borstal-A SURGEON WILL TELL YOU TO HAVE SURGERY. However, the doctor said if I can live with the knee the way it was now, then don't have surgery, but if it was something I couldn't live with, then have it.

And Borstal, your dr. probably told you that even after surgery you may have problems with the knee, because those knee operations are never 100% guranteed to work.

I went home and did research on the web about torn minisucs. My problem didn't fit the symptoms very closely. And since it was gradually feeling better, I really doubted that I'd have surgery.

Bottom Line-it eventually went away with time. No surgery.

[thetinymagic2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:33pm

Borstal, I concur mostly with what Jane has said, except, in my case, I waited waaaaaay too long to even go to a doctor in the first place, and the entire thing got so bad, I could hardly walk at all, and the first doctor I went to mis diagnosed the problem. I, for one, am very happy with the results of what I consider to be minor surgery, and I walk perfectly now. However, torn miniscus and ACL are 2 entirely different things.

[shameless]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:42pm

Borstal, is the knee unstable? Do you feel it move out of place?

Also, did he say you would have trouble with it even after surgery?

My advice is to get a second opinion. My ortho was not at all wishy washy. Then again, I snapped my ACL, so I didn't have many options.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:45pm

I"m just saying that I don't think you or anyone should have surgery unless it's absolutely necessary.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 3:47pm

My bf had a skiing accident one year ago and had to have ACL/meniscus surgery. The surgery was quick and easy, but the recovery was a difficult 2 weeks.

He had to have physical therapy for the full 6 months, which he loved and was actually sorry to stop. Now, he's back to running 3 miles like he used to although he kept the ice machine and ices his knee sometimes after working it hard.

He intends to go skiiing again next winter, but that doesn't mean it's "good as new."

This is tough stuff--definitely get a second opinion from another surgeon, but Jane is right: Surgeons recommend surgery.

PM me if you want the name of my bf's surgeon. He's the team surgeon for the NY Rangers.

[yodamarie78]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 4:10pm

I had arthroscopic knee surgery when I was 12 to correct what was essentially a birth defect. My situation was obviously very different from yours, but if you do decide to have surgery I second what tinymagic says about arthroscopy. It was out patient and I was up and moving around by evening. After about 2 months I was walking without assistance.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:24pm

"I had arthroscopic knee surgery about 5 yrs. ago and it was a snap!"

me2, but mine was in the 80's and still a snap. It's considered out=patient surgery, and if you do the physical therapy after, you'll have NO problem

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:27pm

Well, I'm glad those that have had the surgery here had no problem. My aunt had the surgery years ago and still can't go up and down stairs. I guess it's different with every one.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:38pm

how many years, Jane....it may have been the surgery before orthoscopic

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:40pm

LOL Elph! Butno, it was since the arthro! In fact, my cousin is having that surgery tomorrow! She HAD to do it she was in so much pain.

I'm just not an advocate of surgeries unless it's necessary.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:42pm

Jane--you have a ROTTEN bedside manner.

Jane's aunt's experience is highly unusual with this operation and should in no way alarm you or deter you from taking proper medical action.

ACL and meniscus surgery has benefited from the kinds of advances people are describing here. It's not a walk in the woods, but it's among the simplest of surgeries out there. You could have a lot of much worse things wrong with you, with chancier outcomes. Be grateful for the advances in medical science and take advantage of them. If you need the operation, NOT having it can have much worse consequences.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:46pm

"Jane--you have a ROTTEN bedside manner."

au contraire. I'd never try to talk someone into surgery. That's your prerogative.

I hope Borstal is taking all these posts with a grain of salt and realizing they are just personal opinions-even YOURS, PJ

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:49pm

Borstal has been agreeing and disagreeing with my opinions for years.

But I think it's bad form to say to someone facing a difficult medical decision, "I knew a girl who had what you had--and then she died."

Even if she did.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 10:54pm

Now you're getting ridiculous but I'll play

, PJ. Your analogy is WAY off.

Borstal said his knee was getting better. If that's the truth, you, or anyone else should not recommend surgery right away.

And let's say he does decide on surgery. I'd rather hear everything I can about it, every possibility, before I signed. I would want to know what could happen, and not just a sugar coated "you'll be just fine."

so that's my way, and you have yours.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 11:18pm

Okay, deal.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 11:24pm

LOL, I was just about to come back here and post that I'll stay out of the discussion if my bedside manner was upsetting Borstal.

[thetinymagic2]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 11:41pm

Borstal is looking for comfort and positive reinforcement (info). please don't scare him.... (for the record, i like you jane, but you're not helping the guy by relaying "what if" so and so happens). Sometimes you just have to seek the info and use your own instinct...and trust that you have the absolute best doctor for the job And I DO agree with you that nobody likes or wants surgery, unless absolutely necessary.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/21/09 at 11:56pm

I have no idea if it was upsetting Borstal, but it scared the SH*T out of me.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/22/09 at 12:03am

"Borstal is looking for comfort and positive reinforcement (info). please don't scare him"

And why don't you let him speak for himself?
I repeat, we all have our opinions. I'm not putting yours down, so I'd appreciate the same.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/22/09 at 12:07am

And BTW-I have been here long enough to have read a multitude of threads asking for medical opinions. ALL kinds of opinions have been posted-good and bad.

why don't you go back and tell everyone who posts an honest recounting of their experiences to stop scaring the patient?

P.S. We're not talking bypass surgery here-it's a damn knee, and according to you, there's nothing to worry about, so stop worrying.