Black Swan- Page 5

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 1/5/11 at 12:13pm

Well she can do far better than Culkin

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 1/5/11 at 12:18pm

It's an American giallo, nothing more, nothing less. The Oscar buzz has nothing to do with anything except timing. I don't think anyone would be discussing Oscars had this been released in, say, July. I mildly enjoyed it.


That said, it kind of does make me wish the Carol Burnett show was still on the air. A parody of this would be killer.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 1/5/11 at 12:41pm

"Also, I'm a bit uncomfortable with this exploration of the "darker side of being a woman." Really, Hollywood? You're as bad as the ballet world."

You're giving the script too much credit, and I write this as somebody who liked the film. The plot is so pronounced with the Madonna-Whore complex within the movie itself.

[BwayTday]

Posted: 1/5/11 at 11:19pm

I don't think Nina battling with herself was a darker side, I thought it was pretty clear that she just be crazy.

Also, I really really liked the film, and enjoyed all the performances. It was Portman's movie through and through though. I am a bit confused about all the hype for Mila Kunis. She did fantastic, but I really don't think the role is something to call home about. If any supporting actress were to get a nomination I think it would be the mother.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/22/11 at 10:26pm

let me preface this : Swan Lake was the 1st ballet I ever saw ( Lac II -the Black Swan sequence)It retains a powerful hold on me now and probably always. So I was interested in seeing what they would do with this. Frankly, Portman and Kunis did a lot better than i thought a untrained dancer could have. The dance sequences are lovely ( did laugh out loud tho when the Little Swans come off the stage and one says "we sucked "... a dance piece that is done routinely in dance recitals in schools around the world? - all ya hafta do is up and down left and right if you suck in it u really SUCK!!)
Yes I know they did intensive work prior to the filming but seriously, @ their age their body shape is pretty set w regard to things like turn out et all.
Of course it helps when you know what to photograph and what to slide over too. ( Aronsky -credit when due)
There are so many "homages"( DON'T call it stealing!!!) to other
dance and theatre films its exhausting! ( All About Eve and The Unfinished Dance came particularly to mind as well as Suspira and of course The RED Shoes)
Loved Winona Rider as Beth and Hershey was having a ball chewing all her scenery ( for the record I don't think she is QUITE as evil as she is viewed and esp don't think she was "doing" her daughter)
Portman was OK BUT I can see why people in the ballet are not so happy with this film- yes it's an intense incestious(sic) little world but really - it doesn't make sense as to HOW a dancer would progress from school to company (poss to chorus) and now at soloist would make the jump ( and it is ) to one of the showiest most demanding roles in any repertoire. Even someone as dedicated to her technique as Nina is supposed to be. She only seems to be able to do the tender suffering role- what else could the character have danced to have her even considered for this role? The Mazurka in Swan Lake? The Spanish dance in Nutcracker? ALL of these ( and many more) require strong technique but even more- SOME acting ability, if the dancer doesn't (at least) seem to enjoy their performance- the audience won't either.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/22/11 at 10:50pm

CONT'd
Odile ( The Black Swan) has been described by Balanchine as a sparkling diamond, strong, confident in her ability to ensnare the prince, "cold but passionate interest in the prince" .ANY one who dances knows that is the role and unless you are in some pitiful excuse for a company, that is neccessary to be considered for the part. If Nina doesn't have that I don't believe she could have progressed as far as she purportedly has in major company.
The psychosis was just alittle too close to camp for me - it did cross over a few times. Esp w the special effect bits on her skin
and of course that final transformation in the dance. Frankly, it distracted from how well the actual dancing was being done.

I did really love the score esp how well Tchaikovsky's music was placed within other music.
***SPOILER***


What the what happened w the dang mirror? How did it really break? and really, how the HELL could she have danced ANYthing w that kind of trauma going on? Adreneline is great but once you lose a certain blood volume, you can bearly stay upright much less dance a sequence like that!!! I was with it til then- then I kinda just waited till it was over.
SO- some stuff I really liked, some stuff was laughable, and some stuff just made me throw up my hands in confusion and want to get away . 3 out of 5.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 6:33am

It has been a while since I saw it, but did anyone at the end see any kind of injury/blood during or after the dance? Was that another thing that was only in her head?

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 3:41pm

It is very unclear- She drops to the mat (!!) and hears the cheers and congratulations (and esp Tomas line about "My little princess) AND THEN someone else notices the blood and there is a brief flurry of gasps and get helps and then the final line as the cheers build and fade. The thing is- are we STILL seeing Nina's POV or are we actually seeing it from the 3rd person/the camera? I gave up as I said it was too convuluted to follow.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 3:44pm

Jersey-

The camera avoids the wound/where the wound would be until just before she jumps. I specifically looked out for any blood during the dance when I saw it a third time, and it's pretty obvious the filmmakers didn't want us to see.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 3:52pm

Spoiler alert ---

At the end of the movie, SHE'S DEAD. Plain and simple. The movie is perfectly clear: she's bat**** crazy, some of the stuff happens, some of it doesn't, it is perfectly clearly laid out if you think about it for a couple of minutes, which I'd say is about how long it took to write the script. The scene where she's washing her hands and peeling skin from her finger only to have it not be happening at all tells you everything you need to know about where the film is going.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 5:09pm

SPOILER

Roscoe, not so sure I agree with you on the ending. I've seen it 3 times, and I can't say I am convinced that Nina has killed herself.

I love the film. It's wonderful. But it's far from brilliant- at least on any level other than how fun it is to watch. But does it need to be anything more? It's a breakdown on film, plan and simple. I'd love to hear what the writers/Aronofsky think about this movie. I wonder what they were actually going for.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 5:14pm

It seemed perfectly clear to me that she's dead. Attempts to cram ambiguity into this perfectly straightforward little movie are ill-advised.

Updated On: 1/23/11 at 05:14 PM

[Overkill]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 7:30pm

AmericanBoy, it's painfully obvious that she killed herself. The swan dies, and in her quest for perfection, she dies. It's very simple.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 7:42pm

Of course she is dead. It's the only ending that works w Swan Lake . Odette (the Swan Queen) is doomed -as soon as you hear about how having lost her True Love ( well actually betrayed by his vow to love and wed the Black Swan(Odile) her freedom from the evil magician Von Rothbart can only come w her death. (the film did gloss over that a tad -guess they didn't want to foreshadow TOO much) Nina's freedom can only come w death since only in death can she be "perfect".
But when you have the "unreliable narrator" ( Nina's POV ) well like I said it got too convoluted to follow.
**SPOILER**




IF I was being REALLLY generous I'd guess she hid the mirror shard on her costume using it just as she falls (except of course her hands are in the wrong position and there are no cuts on her hands)

Still too convoluted.

[yay_gerb]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 9:03pm

SPOILER ALERT

can i just say..i saw this for the third time yesterday..and aside from you seeing NO blood during the entire last act when nina is dancing..just before nina jumps it shows a shot of her mother..then a close-up of nina and the cut..then it goes to a wide shot of the stage and from that shot i didn't see any blood on the costume. i know it works better that she would die at the end of the movie but like everyone is saying...she is crazy..its possible..

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 11:18pm

When u do a suspense/thriller, plotting is important esp w consistancy. The inconsistancies here ie what's the psychosis and what's the reality esp at the end are what finally spoiled it for me. IS Tomas actually calling her "princess" or is her (original) obsession w Beth causing her to "hear" that now that she is "perfect"? IS the mirror broken ( if not by a body, than by what & why ?)HAS she killed herself or just gone catatonic?
I don't expect everything to be wraped up for me in a bow but it really appeared that they didn't know themselves anymore and were just caught up creating a BIG cinematic moment, to borrow a phrase, style over substance.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 10:35am

***SPOILER***

If I remember correctly, we see that she has stabbed herself when she is in the dressing room. When she goes back onstage, we don't see the blood because we're back in her head and she's not thinking about it. At the end, we see the blood, because we're thrown back into reality as she expires.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:09am

I have a screener of this film on DVD and you do see blood on her dress in the last dance before she runs up the platform, its very clear to see as well.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:16am

We can agree to disagree on the ending. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but- hey- does it matter?

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:29am

I watched a screener twice and the way I saw it was that she did stab herself and not Lily. The reason it doesn't bleed during the dance is because the shard of glass was still in her body, blocking the flow of blood. When she finally removes the shard at the top of the platform, we see the blood starting to flow, and, of course, when she's lying on the stage, the blood has now spread all over the place as she dies.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:31am

Jane2--hello, old friend!

My take was exactly the same as Jane's, for what it's worth.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:34am

Hi Reggie-I just had to post in this particular thread because I'm such an avid fan of The Swan, and of Portman's performance, mainly.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 2/4/11 at 10:10pm

The Globe and Mail interviewed som dancers from the National Ballet of Canada- The Q & A has some interesting remarks:
Dishing on "The Black Swan"

[BowerytoBroadway]

Posted: 2/4/11 at 11:03pm

Great link! Thanks for posting that.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 2:01am

"I thought Bening was brilliant (in a much less showy role) in AMERICAN BEAUTY"

Bitch, please, Bening was pure camp in AMERICAN BEAUTY. If anything, Swank's performance was subtler. Her voice, her mannerisms were waaaaay quieter than Bening, who's either screaming or laughing her head off left and right.

Also, add me to those who think that CHICAGO doesn't hold up well. I mean, the opening number is still brilliant and the movie keeps pace right up until after Velma does her little song & dance for Roxie. But after that, it loses steam fast and the finale is just horrible. All the MTV music video flashy editing goes a long way.

And WTF with Oscar noms for Queen Latifah and John C. Reilly? I thought it ridiculous then, too. They each had one good (not great) song, but other than that their roles were rather nondescript.