Brokeback Mountain won and it just seemed so ordinary- Page 11

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:24am

And PalJoey as the voice of reason... (By the way, the flashback passage is my favorite, too.)

You guys, excuse me, but it's "ah wish ah knew how to kwit yew."

Have a lovely evening, all.

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 12:24 AM

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:25am

Sorry, PJ. You're absolutely right. My bad. I'll correct my post, and in the future I'll try to be more respectful of the GOLDEN GLOBE winning screenplay.

[DG]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:29am

Gotta agree on the Hemingway thing - blood and sand just don't mix - so I've heard.

Mr. Lee's conservatism in filmmaking has worked for me once with profoundly breathtaking effect - SENSE AND SENSIBILITY. But that, as Auggie would probably agree, owes much to the extraordinary Emma Thompson.

And not to throw gas on a fire - that should have died out long ago - even bad movies can have a societal impact.

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:43am

Hold that chorus of HAPPY TRAILS TO YOU...

THIS JUST IN:

I just received the most thoughtful and eloquent PM from Namo in response to my post on his announced departure from this thread. (I've truly arrived!!!) Allow me to share.

FindingNamo: 1/19/2006
"yeah, it just won't be in that thread... dickwad!"

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 12:43 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:46am

Definitely the FIRST time on BWW that PalJoey has ever been called the "voice of reason."

[harris007]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:53am

Lord all this talk about 1 movie, last time i saw this much debate was titanic. Lol and part of my job when i was in radio was to be a film critic. So i know wherefrom i speek.

I liked it , but not ga-ga over it, granted i'm very jaded about the romantic issues never had bf or ltr, dont desire either. so i was kinda like ok, but i repect how well crafted this movie is, lol it like something my late father told me , never talk about poltics, religion, cus it will always cause a fight , lol think i'm gonna add my reaction to Brokeback.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:43am

Oh, Namo, I thought you didn't care about me anymore.

And your comments absolutely prove every point I have made about your disgusting behavior towards anyone who dared stand up for this film. Additionally and typically, the ONLY valid people speaking in your estimation are those who AGREE with you. Well, it's October 2004 all over again, folks.

And you try to claim that Bluey's excitement at finally getting to see the film is what blinded his ability to assess it? What a sanctimonious ass you are! There were plenty of people who hated the film from that very same hype.

You are behaving like a whiny, little brat. And instead of being able to simply debate the issue, you have resorted to hissing out insults like a bitchy queen with her nails cocked for the scratching.

You USED to be the voice of reason. The man who always swept in with a profoundly intelligent and fair-minded point of view garnished with a hilarious bon mot. Who changed? Not me. I'm still the same radical, dopey, yet passionate and thoughtful Jerby I have always been. You have become a wreck.

The voice of reason in this thread has been robbiej, who unlike you has respected others' opinion even while under direct fire. I look at these kinds of debates as a kind of trial and error to which a tightly constructed answer or thought can be obtained. And, just when I think I have crafted the perfect thought, robbie comes in and adds shades and textures that either embellish or send me back to the drawing board. You used to be able to do that. Now, you merely make me feel ever more correct in my assertions--with the exception that ONE post I had to berate you to get.

So, Namo, you can take your holier than thou verbal putrefaction and shove it back whence it came.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have film students to tutor...

[Edit to say that I also find Auggie to be a great voice of reason here, and Bluey as well.]

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 02:43 AM

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:13am

Speaking of Auggie, I'd love to know exactly what about Johann Hari's piece from The Independent makes him a "pretentious Brit" (Auggies description...Sorry for bringing this up so late as his comments were posted in response to this on another BROKEBACK thread, and I've frankly been puzzled by them since)

Unlike many critics who have disparaged the film, Hari rather liked it. He isn't a right-wing idealogue. He's progressive and sex-positive. But he points out exactly how BROKEBACK comfortably fits into Hollywoods conservative mainstream depictions of gay desire (and perhaps inadvertently, why it has become so sucessful):

"The film is tender and sensitive and (most important) tragic. And that's why, far from being a radical break, it actually fits into a long pattern of Hollywood's very constrained acceptance of gay people. The rules are simple, and stretch back to the first backlot MGM ever built. There are two types of Acceptable Gay Man: you can be a sexless sissy who is fairly happy with his female friends and waspish one-liners, or you can be masculine and actually have a sex drive - in which case you will die."

"...but as the great gay novelist Armistead Maupin says, "For many young gay men and women, the subliminal message [from the movies] is that being gay means despair, self-destruction and death." Sure, Brokeback takes us inches forward by being far more graphic than its tragic predecessors: it can only be a good thing for teenagers in mini-malls in Kansas to see undoubtedly cool men making out, even if it ends in misery. And if the film was part of a balanced diet of gay movies - some ending happily, some badly - I would champion it with a megaphone for its stunning direction, script and acting. But it's not. Brokeback-style tragedies are all young gay people have as a cinematic picture of their future, apart from the (sexless) Damiens and Wills."

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 07:13 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:04am

And the meanest possible thing I could say about you, Jrb, is that you have become the new MisterMatt.

Oh, and to borrow your argument style, many feel your posts in recent weeks have been like watching Yop try to make The Whos understand that they're inside the dust speck. Many. Many feel that way. (Yes, I know you don't care, and I don't care about what you think but I appreciate the time and effort you take to compose your bloviations.) Many of us know you're in the dust speck Jrb. But it's still a dust speck.

Play on.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:07am

ahhh. re: PJ and my "voice of reason comment:" I was kidding! PJ is perfectly eloquent and reasonable, but I was not even talking about this argument y'all are having. I was just talking about the quote, and his insistence that it be correctly cited.

Back to your debate.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:40am

Did I say pretentious Brit? I don't remember,Master. Sorry it stuck in your particular craw; there are some jam-packed craws in this thread.

I do think the DG pov above is as refreshing as the other posts have noted. And it echoes Robbie's: dialogue created in/out of "the community," is dialogue/debate worth savoring.

DG's comments on PHILADELPHIA reminded me of how cool to that film I remained, my chill culminating in the awarding of an Oscar to the undeserving Hanks. The film's arc belonged to Denzel -- the character who had to put aside his homophobia to grow an inch.

Yet Hanks was the touted one. To me, he played a "Sidney Poitier" gay man: saintly soulful, beloved by family and a hunky lover, tragic only in PC terms (AIDS got him)--and decidedly one note. He was devoid of flaws, except minor, lovable ones. And so sweetly perfect he almost set my teeth on edge. Hanks lost weight and allowed faux KS lesions to be applied to his sweet, leading man face. Oscar! From an artistic standpoint, the character was one dimensional and predictable--we had to get out our kleenexes early on, and wait to wipe up fluids pouring from eyes and nose by the film's end.

To those who'll scream, "BUT HOW DARE YOU--WHAT ABOUT AIDS! AIDS!" I say, compare him with Ned in NORMAL HEART -- an enraged, blowhard narcissist, who could offend you one minute and break your heart the next. Multi-faceted characters are infintely harder to write and play. So it's subjective. For me Ennis remains complicated, despite his being monosyllabic, a man who grows to understand the power of his own love. Too late? Well, for Jack. But he's only 40 at the end. To those who say the story is too drenched in tragdy, I say, re-read and rewatch the final moments. His altar to Jack with the shirts and postcard, to me suggests catharsis, and epiphany. And really, you 40 year olds out there -- would you want to see 40 as the end of your live (love life included) Really, who's to say that he won't meet another cowboy?

I lost a friendship after PHILADELPHIA. Yes, someone never spoke to me again because I just didn't "get it."

So, different strokes: I'll take the regretful, possibly glimmer-of-hopeful Ennis over the stoic, doe-eyed Hanks, slipping away like Camille. (And in case we STILL weren't crying, we had to see home movies of Joanne Woodward as the saintly mother, cuddling the saintly baby Hanks.)

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 09:40 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:42am

Sequel!

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 10:02am

I didn't care for Hanks in PHILADELPHIA either, Auggie. In his saintly suffering, he strangely reminded me of Joan Crawford in A WOMAN'S FACE ("Doctor! Remove the bandages!") or Loretta Young in CALL OF THE WILD Where Clark Gable finds her in permafrost but still with her makeup perfectly applied.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 12:37pm

Oh yea! The good ol' "I have it on good authority that many many people....." "They all PM me and say...."

Well, Namo, let's get it all out in the open. Who all is sick of me? Let them be adult enough to tell me directly. I'm aware that not everyone on BWW likes me. I'm even aware of the ones who pretend to. But I doubt it's "MANY MANY".

And, if that's the best you can come up with, then your reign of wit has truly ended.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 4:07pm

If you thought Andy Towle's Brokeback clearinghouse was obsessive. look at THIS guy's website!

Click on "Pictures, clips, etc."
Dave Cullen: My obsessive little guide to the heartbreaking yet oddly universal story of

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 5:09pm

And by the way PJ, what did you think of Andy T's bristling over Heath's appearance on Leno? I enjoy Towleroad enormously, but he seemed to be looking for a fight, all because Ledger didn't use the word "gay" in his discussion of the film. Ledger actually came off well: very invested in discussing the overall integrity of the project, in a tone not remotely patronizing, and even Leno avoided those "what's it like to swat spit with a fella" line of questioning.

This is a sidebard to those posts offended by the inclusion of the women in the TV ads. At this point, almost 7 weeks into release, every aspect of the film's central premise has been soldered into the culture's consciousness. And the media discussion has to move past "was it creepy doin' the tent scene?!" To Ledger's credit, he spoke rather eloquently about the specific demands of the character: regional accent, emotional implosion, etc.

Sometimes, I think too many want it both ways. Don't call it a "gay cowboy movie," and then get techy if the word "gay" doesn't surface in a thoughtful chat about the film's challenges. By Oscar time, every word these actors utter will have been scrutinized ad nauseum.

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 05:09 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 5:11pm

Just and FYI...I DO NOT want them to call it the Gay Cowboy Movie...I want them to call it the Gay Shepherd Movie.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 5:38pm

I say, let's just call it the "Heath Buttf*cks Jake with Nuthin' but SPIT Movie" and be done with it. Heck! I think even Namo would go for that.

But I've been dying to post this with a subject line like "The De-Gaying of Brokeback Mountain" just to watch the reactions.



But it's a joke. A JOKE! IT'S NOT A REAL POSTER!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:25pm

Christ Jrb, it's not my imagination. You really don't have any idea that you are doing the exact things you accuse me of, do you?

I was making fun of you informing me that "many" think I'm whatever it is you thought was so important that you had to tell me for yourself and everybody else. Bully, was it? Meanie peanie? But you don't even recognize it.

It's very important for people to kill their idols. But I never asked to be your idol in the first place.

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:31pm

I thought you were leaving.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:32pm

You know what happens when somebody calls you out. Oh, sorry, nobody ever calls you because you're with your partner of 17 years.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:33pm

The difference being that the "many" I spoke of tell you, Namo, to your face. I wasn't being hypocritical at all.

You weren't an idol, but I certainly did respect you and admire your posts at one time. I'm actually hoping you return to that Namo soon. And, if you are indeed the man I thought you to be, you'll find a way to bury all of this eventually and at least be respectful towards each other. Or silent.

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:38pm

"I certainly did respect you and admire your posts at one time."

That was your first mistake, jrb. What's there to respect about an immature, insulting, sarcastic, belittling, know-it-all, bully?

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 09:38 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:41pm

You do what you need to, son. And call whatever it was whatever you need to call it, if not idol, whatever. I remember the day you appropriated my discussion points about my favorite Republican poster's looking at politics like a football game. I thought it was weird but flattering in a creepy way but not enough to mention it. Then papa mentioned it.

And it's fine, watching you go on and on in discussions now is like watching a baby duck attempt to swim away on its own, only in your case you're pontificating in a way that's devoid of, shall we say, intellectual heft. But there's plenty of words. Eventually you'll have full-fledged ideas of your own, until then continue echoing what others say and agreeing with people who actually articulate your vague notions in a concrete way.

And as for your defense of the downtrodden, maybe your MisterMatt, Jr. cape will finally complete the costume for the all-new you! And as for this BS, "And, if you are indeed the man I thought you to be..." what I am trying to get through your skull is, I don't care if I disappoint you. Really. I don't.

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 9:49pm

Namo... Your constant need to point out how smart (or should I say, intellectually hefty) you are (and how stupid everyone else is), is truly pathetic. And once again, just for the record... VERBOSE DOES NOT = SMART.

Corrected: for spelling and to appease the pettiness that is Namo.

Updated On: 1/19/06 at 09:49 PM