Do you all lie to your friends?- Page 3

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 12:40am

*perks up* Southern boy?

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 12:41am

Costa Rica is pretty darn south!!!

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 12:41am

Sueleen- I see where you could be in conflict here. I always say that if someone isn't asking for your opinion, then don't give it. I guess that's the best I can do tonight! It's getting late...

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 4:48am

Absoulutely Jane.
I think there is a fine line. I am not the type to lie and give platitudes, if I really did not like the performance a friend I will not say that I did, but there should always be something positive that one can say.
Which happens to be the tactic I used with a friend in a show I saw recently.
If someone asks (in the non rhetorical way) what you thought, I still think it is best to respectfully tell them your honest opinion.

It would seem that saying "you were terrible" or "you should give up your career" is a thinly veiled and altogether unnecessary reaction that says much more about the damaged state of the individual who feels compelled to say it than the subject.

Everyone has different tastes, and there are many people in every single professional area that I personally think are in far over their heads. Yet just because I think a particular performer is not good does not make it the "truth", there are many others who legitimately like the same performer.

Saying, "You were awful, you should give up" (in whatever fashion) would seem to be a need on the part of the person saying it to feel a sense of destructive power and as such should be unnacceptable in an friendship.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 6:49am

i usually spit in their face and demand a refund for the time their awful endeavor wasted.

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 8:10am

man, i hope robbiej doesn't see this thread...

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 9:00am

Recently spoken after a friend's bad production:

"I could see how much audience members were enjoying it."
"Your hard work really shines through."
"You really were up there giving it your all!"
"I loved the part/line ____________."
"(Actor/actress) sure did fit his/her role!"
"I can tell that it really got people talking after the show."
"This would certainly get the critics talking!"

None of those things were blatantly negative, and they were all true.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 9:03am

Sueleen, nothing good can be gained by telling him that the show was bad.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 9:10am

Yea, you are right.



(But it really DID suck! )

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 9:26am

My sister was in a heavy metal band for ten years. I don't even like heavy metal music, but I used to go to her gigs because I love her and wanted to support her. That was the only reason I went. Even though I didn't enjoy the music, I enjoyed seeing my sister do what she wanted to do and become successful at it. So I was there to share her dream, nothing else. That's what friends are for.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 9:38am

Yep, I agree, Miss P.

Pengy-you said just what I feel. It does say more about the person who must tell their friend the bitter truth (the way THEY see it) rather than spare hurting them severely.

And costume mistress-those are some really good replies!

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:00am

I agree with Miss Penny.

There are two big things here to remember, if you're in a situation like Sueleen's:

1) DON'T lie to your friends. You need to practice a bit of tact though, too. You can be honest by focusing on why you're there, or elements of the show that you did like. Or you can phrase it in such a way as to not be offensive. Practice your people skills.

2) DON'T run and hide and not say anything. It's cowardly. You can lose your friend over something like that. Silence is NOT the answer. If you avoid them, trust me, they will get MAD. And they have reason to. They will be more insulted and hurt by the fact that you didn't respect them enough to face them. It will have far more impact than anything you could say to them about how crappy the show or their performance in it was (which I don't recommend at all, but avoiding them is WORSE). And is it worth losing a friend over?

So... don't be a weakling... and try to be tactful, but truthful. You owe your friend that much, I would imagine.

Updated On: 5/30/07 at 10:00 AM

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:21am

There is one other thing one has to take into account. Is the show still running? Put aside the friendship/lying/running stuff for one second and focus on this question. Do you have the right to discuss something with a castmember that can affect the performance of a show still running? Unless you are on the creative staff, I believe the answer is 'No.'

Whenever I've been in something that sucks (and, believe me, I've been in some doozies), I'm very much aware of it. And after my friends come and pay the ritual compliments (they must be paid people...that's the price for having friens in the theatre...don't want to pay them? Hang with accountants), I make it perfectly clear that it's ok to discuss the show and its good points and faults. Because I know that nothing they say will change my performance. Even if the director sucks, I respect the process enough to work within the confines of what the director has given the production. But that's just me. And there are times when people have come and seen something I'm in and I haven't given the permission for people to be nasty about the show and they do so anyway. I find that rude and inconsiderate of the work I JUST FINISHED DOING TEN MINUTES EARLIER.

Time heals everything...and letting time go by before honestly speaking with a friend who asks for criticism is the best route to take. I really do think it's kind of immoral to f*ck with the creative process of a company...even if you personally didn't like the production.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:25am

That was amazing, Robbie. You did amazing work in that post. Just amaaaaaazing.

Let's get a drink. Hungry?

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:26am

so, waiting 15 minutes is okay then?

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:27am

Or, say, a week?

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:34am

I would hope actors can separate a friend's criticism from director's notes.

You're doing a show in front of the public, and the public is going to respond... good, bad or indifferent. That comes with the territory.

And hopefully friends aren't trying to give actors director's notes. That isn't their job!

Sheesh!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:34am

Some on-- if you can't bite your tongue and say something supportive to a dear friend, what kind of friend are you? You can always find something to say, even if it's "I wish you could have been in the audience with me so you could have seen how much people loved it!"

I still smart from a dear friend (Who had also been in his share of Turkeys) in college who came up to me after a particularly challenging show to say "Well, I think that might have been the BEST thing I've seen you do!" in a tone that certainly made it clear he still thought it sucked.

Unless you are a professional reviewer, you can be nice. As Sondheim said "Old friends love & forgive."

[Perfectly Marvelous]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:42am

I'll never forget when I was in a production of The Hobbit and one of the actors was simply dreadful. The rest of the cast - fine, you couldn't ask for a more talented group. It was just this one kid who seemed to drag the show down whenever he had a line. One night, after a performance, I was going downstairs to meet family and friends, and he was walking past me with his [stage] mother. "Good job!" he says, and as an impulse, I say, "Thanks!" His mother indirectly quips, "You're supposed to say 'you too'!" and they continue walking by.

Knowing he was horrible and did not give the best performance does not constitute a "you did a great job, too". I don't think it bruised his ego much, rather the mother seemed a bit irrate.

Updated On: 5/30/07 at 10:42 AM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:48am

Oh hell, lie to everyone. It's more fun.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 10:51am

You did the right thing. You didn't avoid him, you didn't insult him, and you didn't lie to him.

His mother was fishing for compliments for her son, or she wouldn't have said something so bold (and a little rude, and a little desperate). She's not being honest with her son, either. She's trying to "rig the scale" a bit.

You aren't supposed to say "you too" unless you mean it. You could have added a more generic "Great show!" Something that was all-inclusive. But you aren't obligated to do so.

[Perfectly Marvelous]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 11:01am

Exactly, I didn't play her game. I thought it would have been worse if I had lied and said, "Thanks, sweetie, you did a good job, too!"

Honestly, I can't sugarcoat anything. I wish I could... but, I can't.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 11:07am

I was taught that the rule for giving criticism on any matter of life (family and best friends would likely be an exception on various matters) is that you should wait to be asked for your honest opinion or at least ask if you may offer your honest opinion. And if they say, "no", you don't give it anyway.

So, I would agree with those who say that you should always just find something to say that is supportive of the effort. You can think of it as "they may have failed, but at least they tried".

But a great performer seeks the honest truth where and when appropriate. One wants to improve. This is not a business for the half-assed (though they somehow sneak in every so often). But it has to be the performer's choice who, when, etc.

[shameless]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 11:21am

"Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true." ~Robert Brault

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/30/07 at 11:22am

i thought etoile said that.