Full Body Scans at the Airport - Yay or Nay?- Page 4

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:19pm

For the people who worry about their privacy - how is this any more of a violation than the fact that they can rifle through your bags at any time?

I mean, I get you not wanting to have people see your naked bodies, but the scans don't really show that, do they?

[Eris0303]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:59pm

Opinion: Our Reaction Is the Real Security Failure

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:28pm

YES! Finally someone gets it. We are changing our everyday lives more and more over these incidents, and we are losing our privacy and rights. Yes, sometimes these attacks will happen. That is life today.

I can't bring a bottle of wine home from Europe. Some poor sap got held up because he had the temerity to bring honey to his sister for Christmas.

"For the people who worry about their privacy - how is this any more of a violation than the fact that they can rifle through your bags at any time?"

I don't like that, either but that makes just a little more sense. In NYC, on the subway,you are subject to have your backpack searched at any given time, for no reason at all - and we all accepted that like sheep. Most people didn't care, because they don't use the subway. AND it's totally pointless, for if you refuse the search, they just let you go to the next station. What the HELL is the point of it then?

But what if they could search your primary means of transportation, say, your car, for no reason at all? Your house?

"I mean, I get you not wanting to have people see your naked bodies, but the scans don't really show that, do they?"

Well, yes, basically, they do. They can tell if you're wearing a tampon, have a suppository inserted, an IUD, a pacemaker - whether you'll be having a bowel movement soon. We don't know what the long-term affects are. Plus these measures are largely useless, expensive, and time-consuming. In any case, I don't care at all about my modesty, just my time and my rights, both of which are rapidly becoming no longer my own.

I don't see how people don't get this. The old "if you don't have anything to hide, then you don't have anything to worry about" excuse is paper-thin. The government can already listen in on your phone calls on the flimsiest of excuses. Is that okay, too? Do you mind that they can follow your Google searches, because they do that too, when they want. Just where do you draw the line?

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:13pm

"For the people who worry about their privacy - how is this any more of a violation than the fact that they can rifle through your bags at any time?"

Phyllis, for me there's a big difference. If they search my bags, they are not seeing my naked body, and any other personal things about it. For instance, what if someone has had gender reassignment surgery and the scars can be seen? that person up to then, was allowed privacy in that matter. Now they've been forced out of their own privacy.

I'm sure there are many more secrets that the scan reveals, but I just don't feel like thinking of them now.

I really feel this invasion of privacy very strongly and it makes me angry.


p.s. For those of you who don't smell the stench of 1984, blow your nose!

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 02:13 PM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:58pm

"I mean, I get you not wanting to have people see your naked bodies, but the scans don't really show that, do they?"

On the report I watched, you could CLEARLY see the guy's c*ck. CLEARLY.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 3:09pm

This theory isn't overly outlandish. If they just wanted to scare us it certainly worked. On my facebook alone I saw people expressing fear over families flying for the holidays. And then you have the government reactions and the uproar over the scans. Could be they just wanted to wind us up and see us dance.
Bloggers Consider Deliberate-Dud Theory

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 5:06pm

"For instance, what if someone has had gender reassignment surgery and the scars can be seen? that person up to then, was allowed privacy in that matter. Now they've been forced out of their own privacy."

What?

People will be moving so fast through these things that ALL anyone will be looking for is weapons.


Do you think the screener is going to stop and say, "So, you used to be a dude?" in front of everyone?

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 5:26pm

Yes, some will. And people will NOT be moving so fast through those scans.

And who cares what the security person says or thinks, or how fast people move? That has nothing to do with the fact that this is a serious invasion of privacy.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 5:51pm

I'm mentioning the screeners because they are they only ones who look at the scans.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:05pm

"People will be moving so fast through these things that ALL anyone will be looking for is weapons. "

I fly a lot, and those security lines aren't moving really fast now, Diva, and this will just slow things down even more. . I can't believe you don't have a problem with these extreme measures. This guy had powder in his underwear, for godssake. If they go through with this, they'll be stopping people for reasons like Jane said, those with colostomy bags, those wearing depends, sanitary napkins...probably sometimes those with tampons (just to make sure they really are tampons).

Theses terrorists are looking to disrupt our lives and fill us full of fear - and we're helping them. We cannot live in constant fear.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:08pm

Then how do you suggest they check for exploding underwear?

I guess I just don't care. I have no problem pulling my pants down in public.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:36pm

"Then how do you suggest they check for exploding underwear?"

I don't. Mostly because you simply can't. You simply cannot prepare for everything. From time to time we're going to get hit no matter what we do, and I think most of our security measures are absurd and unnecessary. It made perfect sense to seriously secure cockpit doors. It makes sense to scan and search bags for (real) weapons. You can't carry a nail clipper but you can carry a pen. I promise you I can kill you one whole hell of a lot faster with a pen - not that I would, understand, I'm just sayin'. Most of the rest of the security measures are a waste of time and money, and serve no other purpose than to inconvenience people. When did Americans become such wussies?

Go ahead, say 9-11, but I was here for that too. That time, they got lucky. We'll get hit again. Count on it - but I'm not letting these a$$hole$ affect the way I live my life. My own government is doing that for me.

I'd far rather take my chances (and as I said, I fly often) than to go through all this mostly pointless BS. Our civil liberties to live and travel as free citizens are at stake.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:45pm

I don't disagree with you at all on that. Yes, anyone could kill you with a pen, and some of the choices the government is making is wrong or laughable.

But, if you make the choice to fly, then you will have to do it by their rules. Flying is not a privilage or a God given right. It's a choice. So all of this talk about having your rights taken away is silly.

I know it sucks, but that's what the terrorists have accomplished.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 7:02pm

"But, if you make the choice to fly, then you will have to do it by their rules. Flying is not a privilage or a God given right. It's a choice. So all of this talk about having your rights taken away is silly".

It isn't at all silly, and I fly because my job requires it. You live in CA, I believe. Presumably you have a car. Would you be okay with being stopped for no reason at all and searched because you were going over a bridge or through a tunnel and thus might be carrying a bomb?

"I know it sucks, but that's what the terrorists have accomplished".

It's not the terrorists that have accomplished this, it's our own government. They've shown the terrorists that they can change the way we live our FREE lives (and along the way, used terrorists as excuses to take away even more rights). I don't find that silly at all. Will you be okay with it when they take away your taser and mace that you prize, if you haven't been joking about that? Because they certainly will.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 7:16pm

Since your job requires you doing something that you find intrusive, maybe you should find another job that doesn't require air travel.

As far as what will happen in the future, you are just projecting.

But, if they need to check my car, then so be it.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 7:41pm

"Since your job requires you doing something that you find intrusive, maybe you should find another job that doesn't require air travel".

Now that really is silly. I don't even think you believe that I should find another job on that basis. And it's not that I find those scans intrusive - like you, I'll drop trou if they really think it necessary - on occasion - but not every damn time. It's a waste of time, money, and resources.

"As far as what will happen in the future, you are just projecting".

Possession of tazers and mace are already illegal in many states, if that's what you were talking about.

"But, if they need to check my car, then so be it".

So, to use your logic, if you need a car for your work, and you have to go through this ridiculous process every single time you use it, you'd either be okay with it or change your job? Is that what you're saying? Because that's what you just said to me.

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 07:41 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 7:47pm

See, you get paid to work. Air travel is part of your work. It's now part of your job to have to deal with these things. So, no it's not silly for me to say, "If this bothers you so much, then find another job"

As far as the "projecting" thing, no one is stopping cars and searching them. But, if that's what I would have to do to get to work, then that's what it is.

You would probably like a fatser check in than an average flyer, since you do it all of the time. That's not going to happen. You will be treated just like every other travel.

The job is your choice.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 8:49pm

"You will be treated just like every other travel[ler]"

Oh, but I'm not. I always get pulled aside and searched, not because I've ever been arrested nor done anything wrong, but because I'm on a list because of the countries I've travelled to. Really no other reason. I do not belong to any subversive organizations, am a natural born American of European extraction, but I travel a lot and that makes me suspect, I suppose. I am a model traveller, always remove my shoes, have my godd@m toiletries in the requisite-sized clear baggie, and never set off a metal detector, since I've prepared for all those things. Unlike many if not most of you, I've been dealing with all that for thirty years - but most of this new stuff is ridiculous.

"As far as the "projecting" thing, no one is stopping cars and searching them. But, if that's what I would have to do to get to work, then that's what it is".

Well, that's simply not true. It happens in NY with some frequency - and not for drunk-driving checkpoints - they're for bridges and tunnels. And I have difficulty believing you would be as accepting of having your car searched as you say you would, but I'll take your word for it, though will they have to pry that tazer and mace "out of your cold, dead hands" as the NRA like to say?

There are laws in many states that make sodomy against the law. Should I tell you you should simply change your sexual orientation, because that's the way it is? Many people think that's a safety issue, because of AIDS. Are they right? Of course not.

I don't know how old you are, but I certainly remember when the AIDS epidemic first broke out, there were serious attempts at quarantining sufferers to contain the epidemic. Would that have been okay by you? No question many lives would have been saved, but would it have been worth it?

I sure as hell don't think so. There's a much larger issue here.

The job, btw, has been my job on and off for over half my life. I'm not changing it because my government has made some stupid regulations, and I honestly don't believe you really believe I should change my job because I think these regulations are stupid and useless. I will assuredly continue to protest it, because that's what citizens do, protest within the law. Sometimes outside of it, like stonewall, or the revolution. I honestly don't understand why you, of all people, are arguing this point, unless it's because you are discussing it with me (and thank you for keeping a civil tone) or whether, in your own words, you simply don't care, presumably because it doesn't affect your rights as much as it affects mine. In either case, I'll leave it here. You've stated your case, and I've stated mine.

Again, thanks for keeping the tone civil.


Updated On: 1/7/10 at 08:49 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:03pm

It seems apparent to me that, because of the fact you do travel more and get searched more often, that it angers you

"have my godd@m toiletries in the requisite-sized clear baggie"

So it makes me wonder if it's more that, then anything about having your rights taken away.

And, strangley enough, I have been searched and gone thru metal dectors and they NEVER find my tazer that's right in my pocket. Of course, I haven't taken it to the airport, though. That would be just all sorts of wrong.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:38pm

I'm not angry, I just think it's foolish and a waste of our resources/money and does not make us one bit safer. Our money could be put to much better use. I never minded or got angry about all the precautions they took before 9-11, and complied, as I do now, without protest while in an airport. I take being searched as a matter of course, since it has always happened to me for the past thirty years - but now it's just getting stupid. The "precautions" they take now are just time-consuming and are simply a pointless execise to make us feel safer, while accomplishing nothing more than delays.

I will confess that the "godd@m" part has to do with just what the hell difference could it possibly make what size a clear baggie is? A clear baggie is a clear baggie is a clear baggie. If you can see everything that is in it clearly, how can its size possibly matter? That is just plain arbitrary - but I comply anyway. And yes, that annoys me. It takes great deal more to anger me.

Just out of curiosity, why are you carrying a taser through metal detectors? That strikes me as a whole hell of a lot more dangerous than my baggies of toiletries and nail clippers, even if you aren't on a plane.
Updated On: 1/7/10 at 09:38 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:44pm

And I'm with you on that!

I think I've just gotten to the point where I find getting angry about ALL of the GD MF STUPID AS$(Sorry, I had to vent)things that go on in life is sort of pointless and a waste of energy.

If that makes me a sheep, then so be it, but I find that, now-a-days, the squeeky wheel won't get greased, it'll be searched and frisked.

And someone just sent this to me which I had to laugh about, being that I just said I have no problem pulling my pants down in public:

http://newyork.going.com/event-708208;No_Pants_Subway_Ride#

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:49pm

I love that! I go every year, but I hadn't heard about this one. Thanks!

[SweetQintheLights]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:51pm

I don't want to give my opionion more than I did already but just wanted to respond to ghostlight about the size of the bag.

I think that they want you to use 1- 1 quart size bag is so that all your 3 oz liquids can fit in there. They don't want you to have a lot liquids/containers. The 1 quart bag limits the number of containers that can fit in it.

That's what I've heard although I can't confirm it. However, it does seem somewhat plausible. Not necessarily reasonable...

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:59pm

Boy did I blow it on my last trip to FL. While there, I bought tons of hair products that I can't find in NY (believe it or not).

At security, I was told there were too many fluid ounces in all of them, so I couldn't take any of them. It killed me to see her take them. Not only were they hard to find, but I spend lots of money on them!

I wonder if those security people take home stuff like that.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 10:08pm

Jane,

That killed me too, last time I flew back East to work. I was going to be there for 6 months and I just brought my stuff. They took all of it at the airport and I had to replace all of it.