Help me become a gay.

[binau]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 3:12am

Now that the subject title has drawn you in, I'd like to say that I am gay :P...but I'm not into any kind of 'gay culture' or anything, besides my 5 cast recordings and 2 movies of GYPSY .

I'm only 'out' to my brother (1 of 2), and a few friends (who live hundreds of KM away - I mean I moved a couple of years ago but still visit occasionally)

And it's frustrating, firstly - for anyone who is going to take this as a joke: Do you know what it is like to sit there alone posting on a musical forum, while your friends are out there probably getting laid and enjoying a 'normal' life?

Probably. So please empathise with me.

Anyway, I don't actually know what to 'do' (I'm asking for personal experiences) to become a 'real gay' - in terms of that, I mean, actually meet gay people, socialising etc...should I lead a 'secret' life and try and find gay bars? I digress while I say that:

* I'd be basically at minimum age of entry/drinking (I am 19, in case you guys thought by 'young' I meant 14 or something haha - oh and I live in Australia, so the age is 1 - is it unusual for people this young to be at places like this? (And I LOOK young, younger than my age, in fact).
* Are unattractive people shunned? I mean, I'm not obese or anything (I'm self conscious in being too thin, in fact) - but I'm not particularly stunning or anything. Should I just give up now?
* Are there actually 'real guys' at gay bars? I mean in terms of the gay stereotype of being effeminate etc.. Personally, I've been conditioned to accept certain gender roles (I think), so it is generally the straight looking and acting guys I like the best (let's not get into straight crushes here, oh my god).
--

The main point I have is, I want to break into 'gay culture', so I don't feel so alone. But I don't know how - so if you guys could share your experiences of how you did it etc.., problems you faced/how you overcame them etc.., I would appreciate it :).

I just don't want to be alone for the rest of my life!

Updated On: 12/24/09 at 03:12 AM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 3:22am

Forget the "culture" and just be yourself. I am bi (leaning more towards gay) and I define my own definition of what that is to me.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 3:25am

If you're not into the gay culture, then you're just not into the gay culture. There are MANY happy gay men who aren't into the gay culture/scene.

I agree with spider, just be yourself.


Updated On: 12/24/09 at 03:25 AM

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 9:15am

Personality doesn't have to correlate with the stereotype. Just because you are homosexual doesn't mean you have to "act gay" or worship Barbra Streisand or wear pink or have a certain hairstyle or be a skinny little bitch and think you're fat or love musical theatre or feminine or wear tight shirts or drink cocktails.

Gay people can be football-playing, beer-guzzling, bar-fighting, macho men, too.

You are homosexual. That doesn't mean you have to be "gay." (using the word to refer to the stereotype) BE YOURSELF.

[CSonBroadway]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 9:33am

Why do so many of the bitter queens on this board who are gay diss "gay culture". There are many different kinds of gays where it be the skinny club hopping fashonista or the bear queen who listens to Gypsy. I expect you would respect that, but I guess not.

[AndAllThatJazz22]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 9:45am

Gay can mean two things
1) Joyful
2) or Homosexual

Assuming that you're referring to homosexual, remember that homosexual only means ONE thing. Homosexuality only means that you are attracted to people of your same sex. It does not mean you have to be a club-dancing, Sex and the City watching queen. There is NOTHING wrong with that if you wanna be, but if that isn't what you are... you shouldn't feel pressured to have to become that way.

Be who YOU want to be.

And as for the looks,
you CAN improve the way you look if you would like to. This passed October (after I came home from a life changing trip to New York) I randomly decided that I don't like my image. Like you, I am self conscious about my skinny figure as well as many other things. I decided to
A) Get out and exercise a little
B) Dress in nicer clothing
C) Use a good acne product
D) Find a good hairstyle (THAT can be frustrating, BELIEVE ME!!!)
E) Switch from glasses to contacts (I'll officially make the transition on Tuesday).

You would not believe the difference it has made on my appearance. If you're DYING to know, you can PM me.

[AndAllThatJazz22]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 9:47am

-Why do so many of the bitter queens on this board who are gay diss "gay culture". There are many different kinds of gays where it be the skinny club hopping fashonista or the bear queen who listens to Gypsy. I expect you would respect that, but I guess not.-

I don't see anyone disrespecting anything, here.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 9:56am

CS--calling other people "bitter queens" sets a terrible example in a thread like this. Didn't you learn long ago that only bitter queens call other people bitter queens?

Golbinau--learn to love yourself exactly as you are and exactly as you aren't. Appreciate your friends and family for exactly who they are and exactly who they aren't. No one can make you a "real gay," whatever you think that is. But you can make yourself who you want to be. Starting this Christmas.

There are as many kinds of gay culture as there are kinds of culture. Enjoy what you like, expand your horizons when the opportunity arises. If you feel like you're missing out on something, partake in it. Just play safe--not just sexually but emotionally.

Don't worry about gender roles or getting laid or being too skinny or being too anything (or, its opposite: being not enough anything). Just be yourself, be content with who you are, and people will be attracted to the energy that radiates from you.

And don't learn from CSonBroadway. Being gay is NOT about calling other people "bitter." It's about celebrating the fabulousness in everyone.

Updated On: 12/24/09 at 09:56 AM

[CSonBroadway]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 10:02am

I have experienced over maybe 15 posters on this board who have called other people bitter queens. And I am the only one getting sh** for it?

[AndAllThatJazz22]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 10:07am

Another point I'd like to bring up is that all of us are saying, "Be Who You Are", but you may not know who you are yet. Maybe you think you are looking for the "real gay within you" when you are actually looking for "the real you". The best way to find out who you are it to just live a little. That doesn't mean you have to do anything stupid, all you have to do is experience some things. I still have a long way to go in the "discovering myself" department, but despite the facto that I'm not all the way there yet, I've come a LONG way in the passed year.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 10:09am

Sorry to be starting with you, CS, but maybe the subject of the thread makes "bitter queen" stick out.

I agree with PJ: it's an ugly phrase, and I've never heard it used by anyone of whom I didn't think "Get a mirror."

Leaving the word aside, what inspired the angry post? And whom were you talking to?

[Jane2]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 10:11am

"Why do so many of the bitter queens on this board who are gay diss "gay culture"."

No, I'm not a gay man, but you're way off with the above. No one has dissed "gay culture." You must have it on your mind.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 10:32am

The sooner you realize that everyone, not just the homosexual community, feels pigeonholed by society into "types," the sooner you can let this go.

You have identified yourself with a specific group of people now, and you have added in all the "expectations," real or imagined, of that group.

It's no different than black people who are told by society or by members of their own "group" that they aren't black enough. Or that they act too black.

There are perceived expectations placed upon you for being a member of a group. But I agree with others here that you need to let those expectations go. Be yourself. Here's the big secret: you aren't going to be "kicked out" for not loving Barbra Streisand, disco music, Judy Garland, or any other stereotypical cultural bullet point associated with "the gays."

As far as "what do I do now?" I remember that feeling well. I was a late bloomer myself, and when I came out, I did have a bit of a "lost" feeling. There's no user's manual or road map showing you exactly what you need to do and where you need to go, as of this point forward.

What I did (at the time) was to call a few of my friends who I knew were gay, and ask them for help and general advice. They took me to a few clubs, some parties, small gatherings, and other social events, and I began to look around. I started forming my own opinions. I began to answer the general question, "What do I want?"

You should be asking yourself that now: "What do you want?" It may take you weeks, months, or years to answer. It's a general question, but as a gay man, you can decide what you want from your sexual orientation and the gay community. Do you want a lover? A long-term relationship? Sexual partners? Close gay friends? A social network? A group to hang out with? Do you want to join a gay church? A sports team? A political movement? A philanthropic organization? These all fall under the "what do I want" umbrella.

Congratulations on opening the door. But it's a big world out there in Gay Land. It's made up of all types, shapes, sizes, and attitudes. There is no "right" or "wrong" road, only your own. Be good to yourself. Play safe. Trust (and be true to) your own judgment.

And enjoy the journey.

Updated On: 12/24/09 at 10:32 AM

[sally1112]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 12:09pm

Ok, I totally know where you are coming from. The gay culture does carry with it a heavy burden to be fabulous. But one thing that I have learned, is to be myself and surround myself with great people (both gay and straight). I have no use for the plastic, pretty people that have absolutely no substance. I have the greatest group of friends and we run the range from as stereotypically gay as you can imagine to some friends who don't live up to any gay cliches, what we all have in common is that we except each other no matter what!

Seriously, good luck to you. I hope you find yourself and have an amazing life.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 12:19pm

"real guys"......ranks right up there with "straight acting"......
Sorry, I am not buying this......sounds like a bit of self-loathing to me.

Please tell me what "gay culture" is, exactly? I mean most of us are who we are.....and I don't many of us, who are comfortable with our sexuality worry about "gay culture"....

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 12:31pm

"Leaving the word aside, what inspired the angry post? And whom were you talking to?"

- I am wondering the same thing!

[CSonBroadway]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 1:56pm

When a poster said there are "real guys" that are gay.

[binau]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 2:25pm

"As far as "what do I do now?" I remember that feeling well. I was a late bloomer myself, and when I came out, I did have a bit of a "lost" feeling. There's no user's manual or road map showing you exactly what you need to do and where you need to go, as of this point forward.
"

Mmm, this is the main point of this thread. Thanks (though you already had a bit of an upper hand when you said you had gay friends :P).



--

Though the title is misleading, I don't really want any of you to 'train' me to become a gay stereotype....and as for as my comments about the stereotypes that's just curiosity (I'm aware that 'gay' people would be extremely diverse, but I am looking for some experiences on whether that is comfortable true [e.g. in gay bars etc..], I guess by the response, vaguely, it is?).

By a 'real gay', I mean someone that actually has gay relationships, and socialises with gay people - I'm completely aware that this isn't even technically what a gay person is, or anything - hence the inverted commas around 'real gay'.


The main problem I have is, I don't know ANY gay people, and I don't know where to start. I need to 'break into' some kind of gay community, and I don't know how. I guess I 'want' like-friends, and a 'real' relationship.

So say for example when PalJoey says;

"Enjoy what you like, expand your horizons when the opportunity arises."

The problem I have, is I don't think the opportunity will arise. So I need to 'break into' something that will increase opportunities (to make gay friends, have gay relationships etc..)




---
("When a poster said there are "real guys" that are gay."

I was just wondering what the demographic is for gay men that follow the socially accepted male gender roles. I'm fully aware that this isn't necessarily what a 'real guy' is, hence the inverted commas.

"Why do so many of the bitter queens on this board who are gay diss "gay culture". There are many different kinds of gays where it be the skinny club hopping fashonista or the bear queen who listens to Gypsy. I expect you would respect that, but I guess not.
"

I mean, I'm not dissing 'gay culture' at all. At least, I didn't try to.)

Updated On: 12/24/09 at 02:25 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 2:54pm

It sounds like what you need is ways to meet people. Both gay and straight people have the same problem - meeting good people and maintaining friendships/relationships is hard work.

I guess you could start by searching for people with similar interests. Go online and check for social groups that get together in your community. For example, if you enjoy outdoor activities (hiking, biking, etc.) google "gay outdoor groups" or whatever.

[CSonBroadway]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 3:11pm

I'm pretty sure if you search "Gay Outdoor Groups" youll get something else...

[tazber]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 3:14pm

out of curiosity I googled it and the first result is linked below.


"Local gay outdoor groups"

[artscallion]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 5:17pm

Taz, I belong to the 4th one down!!

Chiltern Mountain club is in the US, not AU, but as an example of what these clubs are...members organize outdoors events, anything from walking tours, kayaking, camping to month long hikes across mountain ranges. They advertise the events in a monthly newsletter, and you sign up and go. I've made tons of good gay and lesbian friends through this group.

Bottom line...you have to put yourself out there. If you research, there are plenty of opportunities.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 5:19pm

Personally, I find the word "homosexual" ugly and loaded, and I know few people who would use that word to self identify. Usually, at least in this country, that word is generally used when one wants to sound pejorative.

And I don't know how to advise someone to "break in" to the gay community if they only find "straight looking and acting guys" normal, and apparently, aesthetically pleasing even just as other patrons in a bar, because honestly, if you want to be THAT stereotypical, those "normal" guys will find your cast recordings and membership on a broadway board stereotypically gay.

And if CS hadn't used the phrase "bitter queen" more people would have already pointed all this out.

[binau]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 5:52pm

"Personally, I find the word "homosexual" ugly and loaded, and I know few people who would use that word to self identify."

I know what you mean, even 'gay' has certain connotations I think...which don't quite capture how innocently natural my 'desires' feel to me. But meh.

"And I don't know how to advise someone to "break in" to the gay community if they only find "straight looking and acting guys" normal, and apparently, aesthetically pleasing even just as other patrons in a bar, because honestly, if you want to be THAT stereotypical, those "normal" guys will find your cast recordings and membership on a broadway board stereotypically gay.
"

Well you were the first one to use the word 'normal' in this context here - I would have used the word normal if I meant it that way (but I didn't) - and it's not about aesthetically pleasing either, because stereotypical 'queens' (at least the impression I get) can be aesthetically pleasing (in the same way that girls can be) - it's just about what I find attractive.

In terms of a romantic interest, it's just not what I think I'm interested in at the moment.

* And I will clarify that it isn't about gay guys that stereotypically take care of themselves, aren't into sports etc.. - but the flaming queens who wear makeup, dress in hotpink, have an exaggerated flamboyant speech/lisp etc..

Since I hope others have established this isn't representative of all gays (I know it was never 'all', but I was specifically referring to the consensus of club scenes or whatever, which I have no experience with), I'm not sure what the problem is :).

I guess beggars can't be choosers anyway, so I'll take the advice of others in finding groups/online etc.., then 'starting to form my own opinions'.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 12/24/09 at 6:01pm

I don't know where the hell you live in Australia, but I've yet to run into any "flaming queens who wear makeup, dress in hotpink, have an exaggerated flamboyant speech/lisp etc." Not once.