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#76

The President the Headband Deserves

Oh yeah she has no agenda.... or book to sell..... or the need to deflect from how much you bungled your stint as DNC chair...

As usual, Hillary takes the fall for everyone else. DWS is a dispicable human being. Obama's campaign bankrupted the party. Sanders still isn't a Democrat but will, for sure, feel entitled to the party's resources in 2020. Plenty of blame to go around (HRC included), but it only ever seems to stick to her.


"I shall stay until the wind changes."

Updated On: 11/3/17 at 10:44 AM

#77

The President the Headband Deserves

FrankieSay said: "White voters who have never confronted their privilege and entitlement should try listening to people of color, particularly black women who supported Clinton overwhelmingly. (Congrats on putting your boots on the ground for her campaign, I did too.)"

Donna Brazile was traveling the country. She listened to all voters. She said she didn't see enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton even among "the Obama coalition." And everyone agrees that many Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016.

Like many who will apologize for Donald Trump no matter what ****ery he is up to, there are also diehard Clinton supporters who will defend her no matter what. Even when Elizabeth Warren this morning had to concede the DNC had rigged the primary election for Hillary! Even when as diehard a Clinton supporter as Donna Brazile had to concede that Clinton's arrangement with the DNC was deeply unethical, many never-back-down Clinton supporters, including some very close friends of mine, will find the most spurious grounds to defend her.

Look, she should have been president. Yes, Sanders, if he had been the nominee, very well may have lost to Trump.

But I can guarantee one thing. If Sanders had been the nominee and lost to Trump, everyone would have accused the Democrats of stupidly having thrown the White House to Trump by nominating Bernie, of stupidly, naievely having gone too far to the left in a country that won't go that way. Just as if Obama had lost to Romney, so many Clinton stalwarts would be so sure that Clinton would have won if only the party wouldn't have gone boldly with Obama and instead she had been the nominee. It's this smug certainty that's so vexing.

We know for a fact that Clinton lost to Trump. Yes, electorally. And yes the electoral college is a disaster! And should be jettisoned. But the fact remains that the electoral college remained a condition of this presidential election, which everyone knew.

But is there anyone who can persuasively say that if Bernie had instead been the nominee and lost to Trump, whether or not his loss was both electoral and popular, or simply electoral, that just about everyone and their manicurist wouldn't be shouting to the rafters that "oh, if only we had done the smart thing and gone with Clinton, she'd now be president!" ?

Updated On: 11/3/17 at 11:00 AM

#78

The President the Headband Deserves

According to Brazile, Marc Elias's drafted agreement between the DNC and the Clinton campaign took effect in 2015; long before Clinton was the established front runner in the campaign, long before there even were any primaries. So to compare this to the situation with Gore or Obama is simply incorrect.

Fascinating that even Brazile - and Clinton had few closer political allies than Brazile! - has to concede there was something deeply wrong here, and yet many never-back-down Clinton supporters continue to defend this. Which is something that, frankly, can't persuasively be defended, and if it were any one other than Hillary Clinton, I doubt anyone would be even trying.

#80

Friggin in the riggin

Donna Brazile "stumbled" on to this and was so outraged and offended, she quit on principle. Oh wait, she didn't. She participated fully and willingly throughout the whole process and only now she's outraged. I wonder what's happening now that might cause her to speak out? She certainly wouldn't be trying to gin up controversy and get someone to pay attention to her cause she's got a book to sell. Nah, that can't be it at all. And our friend from Massachusetts, what could her motivation be. I'm sure it's not a run in 2020 that will likely benefit more from Sander's support than Clinton's. That couldn't be why she's kissing Bernie's ass. Nah, that would be cynical and self-serving and that's so not her.

Hillary Clinton bailed out the DNC in a time of need. Bernie Sanders, an Independent ran as a Democrat cause it was better for him strategically but had zero interest in the health and well being of the party as a whole. And you're telling me long time DNC staffers were siding with Clinton more than Sanders? You're kidding, really?

And props to Joy Reid, continuing to establish herself as the go to person to break thru the partisan bullsh!t people are trying to feed us.

#81

Friggin in the riggin

Yup, it's always someone else who's at fault and acting out of self-interest. It's never Hillary or Bill Clinton.

#82

Friggin in the riggin

henrikegerman said: "Yup, it's always someone else who's at fault and acting out of self-interest. It's never Hillary or Bill Clinton."

Just like no one else shares the blame. It's ALWAYS Hillary or Bill.


"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#83

Friggin in the riggin

LYLS3637 said: "henrikegerman said: "Yup, it's always someone else who's at fault and acting out of self-interest. It's never Hillary or Bill Clinton."

Just like no one else shares the blame. It's ALWAYS Hillary or Bill.
"

I don't at all disagree. There are a great many who indiscriminately and selectively toss blame on the Clintons.
And they should be called on that.
As should those who invariably, no matter what the criticism of them is, no matter how valid the criticism of them is, always find a way to somehow make excuses for them.

Opposing hypocrisies do not an integrity make.

Updated On: 11/3/17 at 01:42 PM

#84

Friggin in the riggin

I never said it did, and I'm not one to give the Clinton's a complete pass, but in the political realm, they do not and have not acted any differently than anyone before them or since.

Calling out the double standard that exists when all three Clintons are concerned is not hypocrisy.


"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#85

Friggin in the riggin

Sorry, I didn't mean to assume you were implying something that you were not. I did, however, feel that your post, no matter how intended, might suggest to some a different position, the one I focused on in my post. Very clearly, there is nothing hypocritical about calling out a double standard unfairly reflecting on the Clintons. And I would hope that nothing in my post suggested otherwise.

Updated On: 11/3/17 at 01:55 PM

#86

Friggin in the riggin

Thank you henrikegerman! We are definitely on the same page :)


"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#87

Friggin in the riggin

Thank you, LYLS3637.

#88

Friggin in the riggin

Civility is a change for me, well done folks. This is no big revelation like Lyle mentioned. It does make one just shake their heads. There is nothing good coming from this story, that is why I wished her to go away. Do you want liberals to run the country or power hungry people like the Clintons?


Stephanatic

Updated On: 11/3/17 at 02:46 PM

#89

Friggin in the riggin

South Florida said: "Civility is a change for me, well done folks. This is no big revelation like Lyle mentioned. It does make one just shake their heads. There is nothing good coming from this story, that is why I wished her to go away. Do you want liberals to run the country or power hungry people like the Clintons?"

Seriously?!? You think Obama wasn't power hungry? Or Joe Biden? Or Bernie Sanders? Or Elizabeth Warren? Or Keith Ellison? They're all power hungry. That's why they do what they do. To project this absurdity that the Clinton's are moreso than anyone I just mentioned is ridiculous.


"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#90

Friggin in the riggin

There is still a problem. Debbie Wasserman Schultz sits in the house, my district. Nancy Pelosi still is minority leader, Schumer the big money grabber of them all. It makes me sick. Happy about the Brazile revelations because it all makes sense now. A year ago the people who said this, me not among them, the DNC was rigged, were met with contempt. Why don't we admit the Democratic party is now a Socialist party, and go with it?


Stephanatic
#91

Friggin in the riggin

Wow! You Clinton lovers seem to have become unhinged, where's PJ?


Stephanatic
#92

Friggin in the riggin

It's not the Socialist party. The majority of Democrats voted against the self-proclaimed socialist and voted for the progressive Democrat. Joe Biden is not a socialist and he polls better among registered Democrats than Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. There's a philosophical and ideological reason for that.


"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#93

Friggin in the riggin

"To project this absurdity that the Clinton's are moreso [power-hungry]than anyone I just mentioned is ridiculous."

No, it's not. That's a perfect characterization of the Clintons. I've supported both financially and at the ballot box but the party has finally dealt with them once and for all. The battle between the Kennedys and the Clintons for the soul of the party is over. Hillary couldn't build on the success of Kennedy-surrogate Obama so she's officially yesterday's news. Also, I've written before that Donna Brazile is partly the reason I left the party years ago. She's a Jurassic-era operative who will always catch the latest wave to remain relevant. Since she's not independently weathly, she needs to sell a few books and position herself to line up a cabinet position if the Dems reclaim the WH in 2020. She's hedging her bets by stroking the Warren branch of the party. A deal has been done.


#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
#95

Friggin in the riggin

I have a great many issues with the DNC's role in the 2016 election and even a few relatively minor issues with the 2015 HFA/DNC contract. But that contract is clearly not what Brazile's reported statement purports it to be. Why the hell she mischaracterized it is beyond me, but she should retract. The language of the contract makes quite clear that the general conditions she described only pertained to the general election not to the primaries. Yes, there were some things like approval of certain directors that one might object to as giving the appearance of impropriety, but it does not rise to Brazile's allegation, which suggested that Clinton's campaign had taken over the primary process. That may or may not be the de facto truth, but it's certainly not true that such an understanding was formalized in the 2015 contract.

Brazile is a very confounding person. First she commits corruption by fielding a candidate forum question that was to remain secret to the Clinton campaign, refuses to answer those allegations, than later apologizes for it. And now this. I don't understand her at all. She's cornered the market on being unfair on an equal opportunity level. And I can't for the life of me understand what she's up to at this moment; I don't see it as at all proving advantageous to the country, the party or even to herself.

#96

Friggin in the riggin

"And I can't for the life of me understand what she's up to at this moment; I don't see it as at all proving advantageous to the country, the party or even to herself."

Her publisher is banking on the actual facts getting lost in the sauce.

Momma's gotta eat. She hasn't been associated with any successful political campaign of note and K St has no need for her services. In politics and entertainment alike, you'll only as good as your last hit. In short, she needed the money so she opted to pick apart Hillary's political carcass for personal gain. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if she landed a gig on Faux News as the faux foil to Hannity and others of his ilk. I've never much cared for her but stooping to the level of shaite-stirrer is too low for even her.

Full disclosure: I just pre-ordered a copy of Donna's book from Amazon...already have a copy of Hillary's recent opus that's collecting dust.


#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.

Updated On: 11/5/17 at 11:45 AM

#97

Friggin in the riggin

Brazile seemed to be involved in this. Like others have said, it's not a big deal, we all knew it. Not going to condemn her (Hillary) for taking over the party, she was the party. Bernie is and was an outsider.




Stephanatic
#98

Friggin in the riggin

"I think at this point Hillary and Nancy are bad for the brand because many Independents are repulsed by them, maybe because they're women, but also because they're the same old ineffective losers that along with Debbie Wasserman Schultz, have dragged this party down"

How Schultz keeps getting re-elected amazes me, guess her district is overwhelmingly Democratic. I have always wondered why the most qualified person to ever run for POTUS (per President Obama) needed debate help from Donna Brazile - lol

Updated On: 11/5/17 at 05:50 PM

#99

Friggin in the riggin

yankeefan7 said: "How Schultz keeps getting re-elected amazes me, guess her district is overwhelmingly Democratic. I have always wondered whythe most qualified person to ever run for POTUS (per President Obama) needed debate help from Donna Brazile - lol"



Does it also amaze you that 37% of Americans still think a buffoon like Trump is doing a great job? Have you always wondered why Republicans in Alabama think a judge who's been involuntarily removed from the bench twice for defying the orders of a federal court and believes homosexuality should be illegal is the right choice to represent them in the Senate? Lots of things to be amazed by and wonder about, wouldn't you say?......... lol

#100

Friggin in the riggin

I can't wrap my head around this contract.
Why when it says that HFA's various authorities kick in only for the general, do those authorities include approval of emails concerning other primary candidates? As well as approval over communication directors? As well as, if I understand it correctly, financial terms which began well before the general?
Why if these prerogatives only vest for the general, did the term of the agreement expire in Sept., 2016, at the very early stages of the general election? Does that even make sense?
What if any effect would the agreement's provisions for the general have in case Clinton did not get the nomination? Why is the agreement silent about that? If another candidate won, would Clinton still have contractual authorities to wield over the DNC during the general? Wouldn't that conflict with the standard transtiion of party oversight to the nominee's team?

The more I think about all of this, the more confusing it becomes. And the less convincing are both Brazile's description of the controversy AND that of Brazile's detractors.

With so little truth coming from anywhere, the only choice seems to be to give up trying to make head or tail of it.

Then there is the issue, as Margot Kidder - yes, that Margot Kidder! - explained last year, that 33 states reached separate agreements with HFA concerning incoming donations to the states to be shared with the Clinton team, which may well have been perfectly legal, but certainly raises questions with respect to the rather Byzantine financial structure of the DNC agreement, and whether or not it had any tainting impact on super delegate choices, or any other compromising impact on the money during the primary process - or if it in fact was the kind of politics as usual thing that happens in joint agreements during either primary or general elections.

In short, following the money becomes highly confusing.

What I can't agree with, however, South Florida, is that no matter what the understanding was it would have been proper and ethical because HIllary IS the party and Bernie was an outsider.

Either the Democrats allows someone to run on their ticket per their own rules or they do not. But when they do, that person should be given as fair shake as any other candidate. Even Hillary Rosen, a close and very loyal Clinton ally, said on CNN the other night that Sanders's shifting party affiliation should have nothing to do with these questions.

And she's right. Sanders is hardly the first American politician to switch the party he's either affiliated with or runs for office with. Bloomberg, Lindsay, Lieberman, Teddy Roosevelt, etc.

Also, candidates often run for office as the candidates put forward by more than one party (example; those running as both Democrats and Working Families candidate in NY - and, everybody in NY, please remember to vote tomorrow!).

Beyond which, Hillary Clinton was not the only Democrat running for president last primary season. Martin O'Malley was as well. And so were two others for a time.

Updated On: 11/6/17 at 08:17 AM

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