Hillary Clinton — Page 3
#52
Posted: 9/22/17 at 7:20pm
Polls throughout the primary and commissioned just before election date often showed that while Clinton could lose to Trump, Bernie would have been the clear winner. And I think we have good theoretical/causal reasons why this would be the case (he wasn't involved in so many scandals, he didn't face potential sexism, he seemed to be able to enthuse an audience in a way that Clinton was not able to, he might have been able to better connect to the working class through his more progressive policies, lack of ties to wall street, more consistent voting record etc.).
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
Updated On: 9/22/17 at 07:20 PM
#53
Posted: 9/22/17 at 7:23pm
..
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
#54
Posted: 9/22/17 at 7:26pm
To paraphrase one of those pop artists of today (I don't really know them) Bernie was never, ever, ever going to win. Ever. I'm sick of Bernie (the second loser) bitching about Hillary being on a book tour while he's out on a book tour. That's another old white man who needs to go away forever.
Oh, segne deine Herzen
#55
Posted: 9/22/17 at 8:42pm
^ Types the old white man who should take his own advice.
#56
Posted: 9/22/17 at 8:45pm
Bernie Sanders didn't mention Clinton's book until he was asked to respond to her comments in the book. It's not exactly a surprise he would be asked to respond to that repeatedly when the book came out.. From what I've seen he hasn't bitched about her being on a book tour but has said he wishes she would focus on the future instead of rehashing the election.
And telling the most popular politician in the country to go away is probably one of the reasons Democrats keep losing.
There is absolutely no doubt that Hillary Clinton would have been a better President than Trump. That's an understatement.
I was a Sanders supporter up until the DNC convention. I didn't only vote for Clinton, from the campaign forward I spent countless hours campaigning for her. I knocked on doors, I made calls, I donated money, I hosted phone banks in my apartment. And the vast majority of Sanders supporters I know did the same.
The Sanders supporters who voted Trump would have never voted for Clinton. If Sanders had been in the race or not.
Love him or hate him sitting around and blaming Sanders and his supporters isn't going to do the Democratic party any favors. Trying to villianize him isn't going to do any good either.
Instead the party should be thinking about why so many people are unsatisfied with it to begin with. At least if it ever wants to start winning elections again.
Updated On: 9/22/17 at 08:45 PM
#57
Posted: 9/23/17 at 3:38am
White voters who have never confronted their privilege and entitlement should try listening to people of color, particularly black women who supported Clinton overwhelmingly. (Congrats on putting your boots on the ground for her campaign, I did too.)
Bernie's blanket dismissal of Black Lives Matter and "identity politics" does way more harm to the Democratic coalition than not focussing on the whines of diseaffected whites will ever do.
Many unsatisfied people are highly invested in being unsatisfied, just like all those "undecided" voters the TV journalists trot out until the day after election day. They're not really as much of a thing as they and those who cover them would prefer to believe.
Oh, segne deine Herzen
#58
Posted: 9/23/17 at 8:26am
What blanket dismissal of black lives matter? Blacks lives matter hijacked a speech he was making and he stood aside and said nothing. Your argument that black women supported Clinton overwhelmingly is true, but only political junkies knew who Sanders was before the campaign, she carried that support, it was gifted to her. Black activists were prominent in Sanders campaign.
It dosen't matter how many times we say we were Sanders supporters that voted for Clinton, it dosen't matter even if you worked for her campaign like Henri or Erik, PJ makes a grand return to tell us we are the bitches that got what we deserved. SMH! At least we know he's good. Good to read you sir.
Stephanatic
#59
Posted: 9/23/17 at 8:36am
FrankieSay said: "White voters who have never confronted their privilege and entitlement should try listening to people of color, particularly black women who supported Clinton overwhelmingly. (Congrats on putting your boots on the ground for her campaign, I did too.)
Bernie's blanket dismissal of Black Lives Matter and "identity politics" does way more harm to the Democratic coalition than not focussing on the whines of diseaffected whites will ever do.
Many unsatisfied people are highly invested in being unsatisfied, just like all those "undecided" voters the TV journalists trot out until the day after election day. They're not really as much of a thing as they and those who cover them would prefer to believe.
White voters who never confronted their privlege should talk to the African American voters in Flint and Philadelphis and ask them why they stayed home on election day. Or talk to voters to see why the Afican American vote in general was down so much in 2016. I HAVE.Have you?
And saying Bernie Sanders dismissed the Black Lives Matter movement is just making things up.
It’s time to end the myth that black voters don’t like Bernie Sanders
"Last spring, a Harvard-Harris poll found Sanders to be the most popular active politician in the country. African Americans gave the senator the highest favorables at 73 percent — vs. 68 percent among Latinos, 62 percent among Asian Americans and 52 percent among white voters. It wasn’t a fluke: This August, black voters again reported a 73 percent favorability rating for Sanders. Critics, such as Starr, continue to point to the senator’s 2016 primary numbers among older African American voters to claim that his message somehow doesn’t resonate with people of color as a whole — and continue to ignore that, according to GenForward, Sanders won the black millennial vote in the primaries."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/12/its-time-to-end-the-myth-that-black-voters-dont-like-bernie-sanders/?utm_term=.2ff4e79bca21
To be honest, the attitude of PJ, and some other Clinton followers here is just as bad, and destructive to the Democratic party, as the "Bernie Bros" they claim to hate so much.
Updated On: 9/23/17 at 08:36 AM
#60
Posted: 9/23/17 at 11:09am
I have trouble believing Sanders would have won, given his "socialist" label. I do think Joe Biden would have easily won, and I think part of the reason is sexism.
#61
Posted: 9/23/17 at 12:17pm
I don't think Sanders would have won. He never received any true opposition even during the primaries because Clinton didn't want to alienate his voters, and he lost those pretty significantly. With Trump running against him? He would have done way worse than Hillary.
Caption: Every so often there was a rare moment of perfect balance when I soared above him.
#62
Posted: 9/23/17 at 12:21pm
I'm not arguing that Sanders would have won. There's no point in having that argument anyway. 2016 is over and Trump is President.
What I'm saying is that it's not a smart move for the party to try to demonize Sanders. Especially if they want to start winning again,
#63
Posted: 9/23/17 at 6:10pm
ErikJ972 said: "What I'm saying is that it's not a smart move for the party to try to demonize Sanders. Especially if they want to start winning again,"
I agree with you completely but it would also be helpful for Sanders to understand the role he needs to play right now and that the immediate objective here is to defeat this latest and most destructive repeal and replace effort and that this isn't the time to push hard for single payer or make himself the center of attention in a debate which will only muck things up further. Single payer may or may not be the right thing, we may or may not get there eventually but everyone needs to be focused on the goal at hand.
#64
Posted: 9/24/17 at 2:19am
and now Bill is 'co-writing' a novel with James Patterson ! Is there ANYONE that Mr Novel a Week hasn't conned into doing all the work?
A President and a nearly President who-done-it or who shot the sheriff---sure to fly off the airport book shelves.
#65
Posted: 9/25/17 at 8:56pm
I admire Hillary's resilience and wish that she had been free enough while campaigning to completely unload on Trump and his supporters. Arguably, four men with the surnames of Comey, Sanders, Putin and Clinton were largely responsible for her undoing, each with his own agenda. Trump only had to stay up in his skates to claim gold. Be it sport, politics, war, name your context, the last general election remains one of the greatest mishaps in the history of humankind. The fate of this planet is more important than the ego of either of the dudes noted above.
Elections have consequences. Only a pragmatic Democrat will ever occupy the White House as potus. Obama took the nation as far left as politically possible with the enactment of ACA, warts and all. ACA is the main front in the so-called culture war of the day. We can only hope that Trump is one and done.
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
Updated On: 9/25/17 at 08:56 PM
#66
Posted: 9/26/17 at 7:47am
I think you're wrong Javero. I think it can go way further left.
Stephanatic
#67
Posted: 9/26/17 at 4:38pm
"I think you're wrong Javero. I think it can go way further left."
Does your assessment take into account the GOP, Tea Party devotees and small government libertarians? Don't mean to point out the obvious but their members vote too and the GOP is currently the controlling party in Congress. Gotta admit that I struggle at times to understand your electoral calculus. Please enlighten us on how say Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden as potus could possibly tack left of Obama without the Dems controlling both chambers of Congress.
Even if the Dems could somehow take back the House in 2018 and unseat Trump in 2020, the result will be corporations and the equity class shipping jobs to cheap labor dens, parking their earnings offshore to protect their interests, and freezing capital expenditures/sitting on their money to punish the electorate. By all appearances, it takes a special kind of pragmatic Democrat to get elected governor of a state or potus while even the least prepared Republican simply has to wait his or her turn to get pushed over the finish line.
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
#68
Posted: 9/26/17 at 5:21pm
" Only a pragmatic Democrat will ever occupy the White House as potus."
Find me a more pragmatic Democrat than HIllary Clinton.
#69
Posted: 9/26/17 at 6:03pm
I didn’t realise a flip flopping conservative was what we call pragmatic.
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
#70
Posted: 9/26/17 at 8:06pm
qolbinau said: "I didn’t realise a flip flopping conservative was what we call pragmatic."
WE don't think of her that way even though you, yourself and perhaps a few others might choose to. And her "pragmatism" is not what made her vulnerable to defeat.
Updated On: 9/26/17 at 08:06 PM
#71
Posted: 11/3/17 at 7:02am
I didn't get a chance to read the book. Did she mention her campaign was running the DNC?
Stephanatic
#72
Posted: 11/3/17 at 9:55am
South Florida said: "I didn't get a chance to read the book. Did she mention her campaign was running the DNC?"
You mean the same way Al Gore's campaign was running it in 2000, John Kerry's campaign in 2004, Obama's (eventually) in 2008 and 2012? Yeah that's what happens when you're the front runner. You dump campaign funds into the party so you can build an effective organization. The reason Hillary had to do it so early in 2016 (and early is subjective because her delegate margin was off the chart after Super Tuesday) is because Obama left the party broke, and Lord knows Saint Bernie never gave a flying F*CK about the Democratic Party until he wanted its resources.
"I shall stay until the wind changes."
Updated On: 11/3/17 at 09:55 AM
#73
Posted: 11/3/17 at 10:09am
LYLS3637 said: "South Florida said: "I didn't get a chance to read the book. Did she mention her campaign was running the DNC?"
You mean the same way Al Gore's campaign was running it in 2000, John Kerry's campaign in 2004, Obama's (eventually) in 2008 and 2012? Yeah that's what happens when you're the front runner. You dump campaign funds into the party so you can build an effective organization. The reason Hillary had to doit so early in 2016 (and early is subjective because her delegate margin was off the chart after Super Tuesday)is because Obama left the party broke, and Lord knows Saint Bernie never gave a flying F*CK about the Democratic Party until he wanted its resources."
Nice talking point. Who prepared that one for you to post?
#74
Posted: 11/3/17 at 10:14am
^ It's how party politics work. Clearly something you know nothing about or you would have presented some sort of factual information to counter. Instead you default to your usual, exhausting 4th grader mentality.
"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#75
Posted: 11/3/17 at 10:31am
I think Donna Brazile probably knows something about how party politics works...
Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC
When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774
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