Immigration Debate... my two cents- Page 2
Immigration Debate... my two cents
#25immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 10:53am
Good god, y'all! Here Gavin DeGraw is starring in a "hit" new Broadway play as the matriach or a family and you folks have to go make fun.
I'm deporting the lot of yas!
#26immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 10:54amLearn to speak English you South of the Mason-Dixon line immigrant.
#27immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 10:56amomg, i can't believe you made fun of his language, number dance homo.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#28immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 10:57am
Hey, I dun gots mah papers! Don't make me get Gary Busey to challenge the teeth on that avatar.
#29immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 11:09amThe lyrics from "I'm Proud to be an American" written on the back of a Goo Goo Cluster wrapper does not constitute papers.
#30immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 11:09am
SOMMS, if you followed ANYTHING I posted ever, you'd know I only eat Ho Hos and Ding Dongs (the Hostess kind, you perv!).
#31immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 11:13am
What kind of tap turn homo are you if you don't eat nuts?
Updated On: 4/12/06 at 11:13 AM
#32immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 11:21amIf I didn't already love you guys I would after reading this thread.
#33immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 11:25am
Sorry to threadjack this back to the main issue, but...
I have to say, I kind of resent the idea of people coming into the country and benefitting from MY hard-earned tax dollars. I have nothing against anyone personally, but plain and simple: if you are living here, sending your children to our schools, using our roads and hospitals, and you are not paying taxes, and you are NOT a citizen or in a proper program to become a citizen, YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE HERE.
#34immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 11:46am
The converse of that is that it's not that simple, Jasonf. You can't just waltz in and "be in the proper program."
#35immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 12:29pmI realize that, of course. I never said it WAS easy. But why should becoming an American citizen BE easy? People spend YEARS going through the process of becoming American so they can be here legally. Why should we allow people who flagrantly break the law and benefit from our tax money to stay here? I actually don't even understand the other side of this issue. Is the argument honestly that: "well, they're here already, so let them stay. They got by us the first time, so good on them, and we'll try to stop the rest"? That makes no sense to me..
#36immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 12:35pmThey DO pay taxes. They don't file a tax form every April, but they are taxed in other ways (sales tax, for example) -- and I'm no economist, but I'm willing to bet they lose a larger portion of their discretionary income than the wealthy or upper middle class do.
#37immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 12:41pmI'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous argument, Calvin. They DON'T pay taxes the way citizens do. Period. They are benefitting from money WE all pay that they don't. If you are a citizen and don't pay your taxes, you go to jail. If you're here illegally and don't pay then what, you get to live here for free? That's insane.
kissmycookie
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/21/04
#38immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 12:46pm
Dismissing a point is really not the way to carry on a debate. Calvin's point is hardly ridiculous. One would see that schools and hospitals (the two main "freebies" that anti-illegal immigrantion side seems to always love pointing out) are funded in part by sales taxes which are determined locally.
And one should keep in mind, WE ALL don't pay the same taxes.
And if you'd see some of the conditions illegal immigrants live in, I'd hardly call that living here for free.
#39immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 12:47pm
A lot of citizens with extremely low incomes (or no incomes) don't pay taxes, either. Should their kids be denied an education and hospital care, too?
They don't live here for free. It's not as if we're talking about people who just come into the U.S. and get a country estate where they eat bon bons and hunt foxes all day. They are a part of our economy.
#40immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 12:58pm
And, let us not forget that many illegal or undocumented workers get jobs under fake SSN cards. This means that for those employers paying above board, the taxes are withheld, but never recovered by the illegal/undocumented employee.
The bigger issue I have is paying people under the table, and thus taking them completely out of the system. We create a shadow economy.
This issues is not going to be one that can be easily resolved. Just as there are folks who have come over recently, there are others who have raised children, had jobs, and been part of communities for years.
I do not think amnesty across the board will work, but other than finding a more efficient way to protect the border, something has to be done to not only recognize that illegals/undocumented workers are both a drain on resources, and a provider of resources. The even bigger elephant in the room is the growing social and political issues associated with a turn in immigration practices from assimilation to a demand for accomodation.
I am sure if I was in the position of many of those trying to come over for jobs, I woud do whatever I could to make a better life for my family. The issue becomes how to we balance all of these competing interests while still being able to look at ourselves in the mirror each morning.
#41immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:16pmFirst lets take care of own struggling people (the poor ect) and get them jobs, then worry about illegal immigrants. When everything is good with our own people, then we can worry about others.
#42immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:17pmFirst lets take care of own struggling people (the poor ect) and get them jobs, then worry about illegal immigrants. When everything is good with our own people, then we can worry about others.
#43immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:25pm
And what would you do with the 12 million here? Round them up and send them home?
And, then when there is a sudden drop in those willing to work for low wage jobs, the costs of goods and services will spike, and you will have inflation, that will result in other unintended consequences, especially with those who have adjustable mortgages. As the cost of labor rises, other factors and issues are present.
Our businesses are have been feeding off of the use of illegal/undocument workers for years with the implicit consent of the federal government. To remove that labor force in a draconian way will not only tear apart families on this side of the border, but have huge economic consequences to everyone else. There is no easy solution to the problem.
#44immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:26pmGet out of Iraq. Beef up the border patrol.
#45immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:31pm
I'd just like to point out, also, that paying sales tax is, in essence, paying double taxes as, if you're afflicted with killer OCD and keep all of your receipts, you can write off almost all sales tax paid during a year.
#46immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:33pmKiller OCD is why I got a killer refund this year.
#47immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:35pmAnd my lack of it is why I actually had to write a check to the IRS for the first time ever.
#48immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:37pm
hmmmmmm ... 500 cute tshirts @ 6% = ?
#49immigration debacle...sense and sensibility
Posted: 4/12/06 at 1:40pmWill you vouch for me during my audit?
Videos