Israel-Hamas War

kdogg36 Profile Photo
kdogg36
#25Israel-Hamas War
Posted: 10/21/23 at 10:04pm

Highland Guy said: "Once again, correcting the Subject to "Israel-Hamas War"."

If you're trying to be precise, you should say "Right Wing Israeli Government-Hamas War." It's no more correct to conflate the Israeli people with Netanyahu's nonsense than it is to conflate the Palestinian people with the Hamas murderers. 

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#26Israel-Hamas War, AKA Palestine/Israel
Posted: 10/22/23 at 2:33pm

President Joe spent twenty minutes on the phone to Pope Francis today. To talk about the (un)Holy Land.

Do we really think this will solve anything? I know he is Catholic, but why should the President of the United States of America give such credence to the leader of this wretched institution?


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

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Highland Guy
#27Israel-Hamas War
Posted: 10/23/23 at 12:35pm

The Subject of this thread is correct as originally posted.
 


Non sibi sed patriae
Updated On: 10/23/23 at 12:35 PM

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#28Israel-Hamas War?
Posted: 10/23/23 at 3:30pm

I sincerely hope that the leaders of this region are better at compromise than you, Highland Guy.

Also worth repeating that I started a thread of this topic a week before you did, but again, rigid inflexibility stopped you from even recognizing it. Even before that, on October 1, before the latest giant escalation, I started a thread named after a Jimmy Carter book. Peace not Apartheid. I suggested Mr. Carter send it to President Biden. Sadly, it looks like my suggestion was ignored. Not only that, for some unknown reason, my thread was deleted. I wonder who and why it was reported. It just baffles me.

In summation, if this board is anything to go by... things are not looking good.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

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South Florida
#29Israel-Hamas War?
Posted: 10/23/23 at 7:42pm

Jay, you're very passionate about this. I appreciate your side of this issue, it has somewhat clarified some things.

 


Stephanatic

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Jay Lerner-Z
#30Israel-Hamas War?
Posted: 10/24/23 at 11:13am

Thanks, SF. I'm not a scholar on this subject, but even a little effort can go a long way to understanding it better.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#31Israel-Hamas War?
Posted: 10/25/23 at 10:09am

Gaza has no fuel. Today the UN aid workers have no choice but to stop. Sick babies will have their incubators turned off.

Netanyahu has literally refused to take a phone call from the UN Secretary General.

Shameful.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Highland Guy Profile Photo
Highland Guy
#32Israel-Hamas War
Posted: 10/25/23 at 2:07pm

Despite the efforts of resident trolls and bullies, the title of this thread remains "Israel-Hamas War".


Non sibi sed patriae

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#33"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/25/23 at 3:44pm

The OP gets to title the thread, not every subsequent post by every commenter. Priorities, please.

Since false accusations have been levelled against me, please consider just who is the bully. I started a thread named "How evil have American presidents been?", which a certain user soon re-named as LET US HONOR OUR PRESIDENTS. I started another one named "Bette Midler Transphobic, Oh No", soon to be called BETTE MIDLER IS AN LGBT ALLY. Other examples can be found. Beyonce springs to mind. I started a thread on climate change, a certain user starts a thread on the glory of flying in airplanes.

I am just relaying pure fact here, in the hope that this person might see sense. No doubt it will be construed as bullying, however unfairly. If there are rules on changing subject titles, which I don't believe there is, they should be applied equally.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#34"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/25/23 at 4:23pm

Getting back to what is actually important, let us honor our presidents for a moment.

"Netanyahu now, I believe, has decided unequivocally to move to a one-state solution. Which every one of his predecessors in the prime ministership has condemned as a disaster for Israel, and I think Israel is now moving toward a disaster for itself in insisting that all the way from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea has to be Israeli-controlled. That is a mistake"

                  Jimmy Carter, 2013

I point this out not to gloat, but just to demonstrate that "urging restraint" is not enough. Do better, Sec. Blinken.

 


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

binau Profile Photo
binau
#35"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/26/23 at 3:44am

I agree that certain political decisions in Israel have not helped the situation and there is a long history. But ultimately Israel tried to give Gaza back and couldn’t because Hamas was elected to govern. And when this organisation is very clear and open that their mission is to destroy Israel and kill the Jews, it puts Israel in a tough spot. And it’s impossible to negotiate with people that aren’t looking for peace. 
 

Given these circumstances I find it reasonable that after Hamas has initiated war they must act and disarm Hamas. I don’t know how they can do that in Gaza. Maybe not cutting the water and electrify and food off etc. is the first thing they shouldn’t have done. But it is a tricky situation I feel. If the US had a terrorist attack that killed 50,000 people tomorrow (I think that’s the figure people try to say as a proportion of population to emphasise how significant the October 7 attack was) how would the US act? 
 

A ceasefire at this point feels unreasonable, but maybe a change in strategy to further minimise civilian casualty in Gaza seems wise as I can feel the public opinion slowly shifting now. 


"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022) "Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009) "Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#36"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/26/23 at 10:43am

I'm not sure it is fair to call Hamas "elected" when there hasn't been an election in 17 years.

Also I think the desettlement of Gaza was mostly halted by Ariel Sharon's stroke, and the succession of Netanyahu as leader. Sad. History can change on so little.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

binau Profile Photo
binau
#37"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/26/23 at 11:14am

I understand now it might be slightly disingenuous to say Hamas 'is' democratically elected given how much time has passed and may no longer really represent the people, but as I understand it in 2006 they 'were' (and either way I don't think it changes the outcome of danger to Israel whether they were elected or not, although it might reflect some sentiment in the population at the time at least).

Similar, if I understand it, it was Olmert not Netanyahu that initiated the blockade of the Gaza Strip in response to Hamas governing Gaza. And so did Egypt too who saw similar risks so it's not as if this was just Israel. Also, there was no halting in the desettlment of Gaza if I recall - they completely withdrew in 2005 and remain that way. The only change was the blockade to control the borders. 

The reason I'm saying this is because I think there is a slightly disingenuous recall of where, how and why Israel 'occupied' Palestine. The occupation of the West Bank is often different in terms of strategy and reasons than Gaza - but people simplify it as "Israel occupying Palestine' as if the scenario is the same across the region. 

 


"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022) "Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009) "Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#38"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/26/23 at 4:42pm

Whatever about the justifications for occupation, real or not, for me the priority right now should be innocent civilians. What Hamas did on October 7 was evil. What Netanyu is doing now is evil. We don't need to pick a side like it's a team sport.

A really good podcast for perspective is Unsettled. 81 episodes, since 2017. About ordinary lives, not terrorists or politicians. Evacuations in south Hebron, activists, efforts to stop Israel taking over Masafer Yatta and kicking 1,300 Palestinians out of their homes, and more. It's made by Jews, and features Jewish people defending Palestinian homes. Humans first. It also covers the origins of Hamas, Israel's control of energy into Gaza and other recent events like Netanyahu's judicial interfering. Many of the people in Gaza are already asylum seekers, imagine how bad things are if that's where you go for refuge.

Of course all this is deeply personal for so many people. The producer himself is the grandson of Holocaust victims, and has a serious conversation with his family about Israel's future.Not everybody is of the same mind. Real people are forgotten in the headlines we see on CNN or Nightly News.

I myself of course am living in relative comfort and security, so what do I know? For proper contextualization, you should all give this podcast a try.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#39"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/28/23 at 4:39pm

I'm afraid to look at the news.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#40"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/30/23 at 6:13pm

The UN says that 3,000 children in Gaza have been murdered.

Why does Washington not deem this worthy of the same outrage as the Hamas killings?

Netanyahu is a terrorist.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#41"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 10/30/23 at 6:19pm

Just in case anybody unfairly reads that as anti-semitism, I'd like to say that there are holocaust survivors who agree with me. Any rise in animosity toward Jews is 100% wrong. Most Israeli citizens hate Netanyahu, now more than ever before.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#42"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 11/1/23 at 11:13am

Jamalya refugee camp has been unmercilessly bombed.

"Urging restraint" has not worked. What now can Washington do?

Perhaps use critical thinking skills... is that too much to ask? We are supporting terrorism. We just don't see it because the terrorist is wearing a high-class suit. Heartbreaking.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#43"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 11/1/23 at 1:04pm

Anthony Blinken's opinion piece in the Washington Post. What do we think?

I guess I appreciate the sentiment, in a way, but it goes nowhere near far enough.

"Defending Israel is essential. So is aiding civilians in Gaza"

That's nice, Secretary... but do the civilians of Gaza not also deserve to be "defended"? What is the difference between "aid" and "defense"? Murder is murder is murder is murder.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#44"Israel-Hamas War"
Posted: 11/4/23 at 5:11pm

VP Harris has said we will not place any conditions whatsoever on arms transfers to Israel.

How can we live with this?


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#45
Posted: 11/7/23 at 5:55pm

What has been achieved over the last month? Are the Israeli hostages any safer? How many of the thousands of dead Palestinian children were terrorists?

Noam Chomsky describes the history of Washington's support for Israel as not based on morality, but on "Christian Zionism". A biblical fetish that goes back further than even Israeli Zionism. Another motive is the legacy of colonization. Superiority complexes from the Anglosphere. "Settler colonial" societies mentality, where elimination of native populations is no big deal. Subconscious culture. Then of course there is the military aspect. Geopolitics. Strategy. He says back in 1948, when Israel was founded, there was a split between the State Dept. and the Pentagon. State was reticent to support further Israeli conquests, concerned about possible refugee crises. Whereas the Pentagon only considered military advantages. To this day, America keeps military munitions in Israel. Which is why they are so easy to transfer to Netanyahu. Israel is considered a military offshoot of the US, an army base almost.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
Updated On: 11/7/23 at 05:55 PM

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#46
Posted: 11/10/23 at 3:57pm

Today Sec. Blinken says...

"Far too many Palestinians have been killed, far too many have suffered these past weeks... and we want to do everything possible to prevent harm to them, and to maximize the assistance that gets to them"

... I mean, is he for real?!


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#47
Posted: 11/23/23 at 11:40am

Today I am thankful that I am not in Gaza.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#48
Posted: 11/24/23 at 10:31am

I'm having trouble understanding public perception of these events.

Why are people losing their jobs for voicing concern over what is happening? I just can not grasp how anything less than full support for Netanyahu is regarded as anti-semitism. I HATE HAMAS. As do most people. It seems to me that many ignorant people out there really have no clue as to what is going on, all they see is TERRORIST and JEW. Not HUMAN.

Even language used in the news. Hamas are releasing "hostages", but Israel are releasing "prisoners". Prisoners who happen to be children held without trial. What is the difference?

There are so many false claims of anti-semitism coming from people utterly blind to their own racism. Brown people don't matter, they do not count as human to them. Sad.

N.B. There are genuine and cruel cases of anti-semitism out there, and any rise in this is very concerning too. I believe this is what Susan Sarandon meant when she said that Jews might better understand what Muslims face in their everyday lives. For too many people, to be Muslim means to be Terrorist.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

Highland Guy Profile Photo
Highland Guy
#49
Posted: 11/25/23 at 6:10pm

Just a test

Non sibi sed patriae
Updated On: 11/25/23 at 06:10 PM


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