Lady Gaga Pours Drink Over Man Who Accuses Her Of Being A Hermaphrodite- Page 4

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 5:29pm

I guess it all boils down to the subjective definition of "great." To me, Idol thrusts into the spotlight people who have some talent for performing long before they're ready. Do I acknowledge the show apparently gives them a crash course in being packaged by handlers so they are "better" at the industry game than they were at the start of the season? Sure. But, so?

There are cover bands and tribute performers all over the world who can "do" the technical things other artists before them have done. But that's not the same as being the artists who created the template beforehand.

That's why the comparisons between Adam Lambert and Gaga/Justin Tranter couldn't be clearer to my way of thinking. They write it, perform it, sing it, design it, package it, and sell it, (I mean themselves and their music in performance, not literally in the physical disc's case). They have the spark of originality and creativity. They have a vision and they bring it to life.

Adam sings the songs he's been given, adds a little Lambert Helper by contributing whatever it is he contributes to a couple songs, stands where he's told to stand and does what he's told to do (up to and including, "BE OUTRAGEOUS!" when being prepped for the VMAs).

Anyway, all this talk has reminded me to move For Your Entertainment to my pile of CDs to sell back to the store later this week. So thanks.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:35pm

As for the issue of the Idol albums being rushed....like their music or not, Daughtry's debut CD was nominated for 3 Grammy's. Of course several of the songs had been written by him previous to him even being on Idol.

[Craww]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:17pm

That's why the comparisons between Adam Lambert and Gaga/Justin Tranter couldn't be clearer to my way of thinking. They write it, perform it, sing it, design it, package it, and sell it...

And at the end of the day it's still gonna come down to what you like to listen to. I respect songwriters immensely, but I'd still rather listen to Kelly Clarkson sing a song written for her than listen to Vanessa Carlton sing a song she wrote herself.

Nobody knows what to do with Adam Lambert because he's a man whose career is unfolding like that of a female pop star. Forgetting that he's gay, there's no modern precedent for his style of pop from a male pop star. The male pop stars with teams of songwriters are doing urban pop, and the male rock stars are doing modern alternative in a band setting. Adam Lambert is essentially being Pink, but instead of just looking like a dude he actually is one.

I don't really think it's fair to compare him to bands like Semi Precious Weapons. It just doesn't follow to me. Granted, when I say this I also say it to Adam and his camp. I don't mind him flirting with glam rock imagery in a pop setting, but to actually say "glam rock" as it applies to the music is pretty laughable.

I still hope he works with cooler people some day. I don't see that as out of the realm of possibility. Just because he's working with Red One at this phase in his career doesn't mean he'll never work with Tony Visconti.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 10:01pm

See, I guess I just don't quite understand the people who put ALL the stock in songwriting ability. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but the utmost respect for great songwriters- songwriting takes incredible artistry and I have so much respect for bands and artists who do it all themselves (writing, playing, producing, etc.)

But I also think that there ARE other ways to be a great artist, and to have tons of influence on the pop culture world, without necessarily writing all your own music. I mean, heck, even Michael Jackson didn't write all of his own music! He wrote a fair amount, absolutely, but there are QUITE a few songs of his that he only co-wrote (which, if you think co-writing just means adding a few words in here or there..), or someone else wrote for him. Elvis didn't write many of his songs either. Soooo many artists today- especially pop artists- use songs written by other people.

And especially with Idol debut albums, since they're done in like 2 1/2 months there's essentially no way possible for them to write all their own stuff. David Cook, who happens to be a truly fantastic songwriter imo, only had one song on his album that he wrote completely by himself, and that song he'd written long before Idol. He co-wrote on 9 other songs, and 2 were written totally by other people. And that's Cook, who has ALWAYS written his own songs. But there just was not enough time, with the Idol tour and everything, for him to contribute more than that to the album writing-wise.

Adam has never really billed himself as a songwriter. That doesn't mean that he [i]doesn't[/i] enjoy the writing process- in fact he's said that he would have loved to have a hand in writing ALL the songs on his album but it just wasn't possible with scheduling. But the point is, he's a different kind of artist than that. He's not necessarily one of those people who feels like he HAS to be the sole person writing all of his music. He's explained before that he really likes collaborating. And no, that doesn't mean "contributing a word or two to each song". It means that he probably feels more comfortable sitting down with some friends and each of them giving some input and suggestions for the song.

What makes him a real artist, imo, is that he has a definite point of view in everything he does. I mean, that's what made him so amazing on Idol! He was one of the first contestants who really made each of his performances a true experience. He put though into the atmosphere, the lighting, the sound effects, the vocal stylings, etc. He wasn't being TOLD to do any of those things, and I firmly believe him when he says he wasn't being puppeted around during the album making process too.

Obviously he IS a part of the Idol machine and I'm sure there were certain things they expected him to do even if he didn't necessarily love it, and that kind of thing. But by and large, I do not think he was "given songs to sing and told what to do and took orders". I know that's a common conception about how Idol works, but I think things have really changed in the last couple of years in that regard. Daughtry became super successful doing his own material, then David Cook came in and changed the whole way the competition was viewed. It's no longer about "finding a great singer who can be a muse for a bunch of crappy pop songs written by other people". Idol has given way to some artists who really DO know what they're doing, and the producers have given those people a greater amount of artistic freedom than I think some people are willing to believe.

Maybe I'm just entirely too gullible, but I really firmly believe that Adam has not stressed time and again how much artistic freedom he has been given for no reason. I think that he had as much freedom in the creation of his album as was possible given the time contstraints. And I think for his future albums, he probably WILL have a larger hand in the writing process. But meanwhile, I don't think his management MADE him do anything. I think HE went through the songs people submitted and chose which ones he wanted to do, HE decided what kind of production he wanted on those songs, and HE was the one who decided to go out at the AMAs and do what he did. No one else.

[Craww]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 10:23pm

Yeah, but Adam was always sort of a willing puppet. A puppet that learned the choreography of his master's string pulling before the dance began.

He's a smart guy, he knows how the Idol machine works, and there was a part of him that was genuinely excited to work in the confines of the machine. The contradictory dominant/submissive themes of For Your Entertainment are almost a perfect analogy for the scope of his career. Willing submission is still submission.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 10:32pm

haven't the "puppeteers" pulled the strings of countless other rising pop stars to help them along the way? (maybe even Kelly Clarkson's). Why is it so obvious with Adam?

Could it be that those puppeteers aren't doing a good job?

[Craww]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 10:39pm

It's more obvious probably because Adam is such a willing participant. Also, because these strings are being pulled in such broader motions. Contrived outrageousness is going to appear a little more herky-jerky than selling a safe brand like Kelly.

...I love how it appears like I don't like Adam from all these posts. I do like Adam. In spite of and because of some of the things I'm criticizing.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 10:56pm

^Oh, absolutely. He's very smart- of course he knew what he was getting into going in, and he never intended to work against it. He knew exactly what he was doing, and definitely used the machine in order to stir up as much buzz for himself as possible.

But I also think that no one MADE him do the songs that are on his album. On the contrary, I think the safer way to go would have been the classic rock, Queen-esque route. That's what he did on Idol, so it was a pretty darn big risk to go against that and alienate the people who love his big classic rock voice but don't like electronic music.

And hey, there would probably have been less people going "omg he's such a GaGa wannabe" if he DID go that route! But the thing is I don't think HE ever wanted to go strictly classic rock. He loves Queen and Led Zep and all that stuff, but I think he would have been a bit bored just doing pure throwback like that. Anyone who's listened to his pre-Idol music knows that he has always loved pop/electronic music. That's why I just have to laugh reading some of the comments people make on other boards and stuff saying "he allowed them to stick him with such GaGa-wannabe crap- he's so much better than this!" Because they DIDN'T stick him with it. Not at all. If anything, they were probably nervous for him to do an electronic/rock fusion thing because that's a lot harder to do really well than good ol' classic rock stuff. But it's what he wanted to do, and I think they really trusted him and his artistic vision.

And I personally think they were right to. Rock throwback may be a lot less polarizing and so it might have lead to more success off the bat, but playing it safe usually doesn't pay off as much in the long run. Queen and Led Zep just aren't what mainstream music is about these days. Doesn't mean they're not amazing, it just means that style doesn't so much fit with the flow of what's big in today's industry. Adam initially would have probably made it big because, hey, there hasn't been a voice like that to come around in quite a while, but once people were over that, where would it leave him? He would be left with a repertoire of pure throwback with no long lasting relevance in the industry.

What he chose to do instead is something that, if he really works on it and cultivates it over time, could lead to long-lasting impact in the industry. The album may be rushed and a little all over the place, but at least it's trying something new. Obviously there are people who have done the rock/electronic fusion thing, but no male artist has really made it BIG doing it. Sure, For Your Entertainment alone probably isn't polished enough to do anything major. But it's a start. At least he's PLAYING with something new. And I really do believe that he'll develop it into something great. The foundation is already there. To me, Music Again, Strut, Sure Fire Winners, Master Plan, and Down The Rabbit Hole are reeeally cool songs. They may not be the most sophisticated stuff out there, but sonically they're very interesting and I at least have not heard much else like them in mainstream pop. So he DOES have something to work with that's fresh and innovative- at least for mainstream music.

So yeah, I'm definitely not saying he didn't willingly work with the system. I just think that he worked with the system in a way that still allows him to do the music HE wants to do. His album IS representative on who he is as an artist. All you have to do is listen to some of the stuff he did prior to Idol to know that. This isn't 19E forcing him to do songs he doesn't want to do- if that were the case, his album would probably be a collection of very safe power rock ballads

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 10:56 PM