Lady Gaga Pours Drink Over Man Who Accuses Her Of Being A Hermaphrodite- Page 3

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 2:58pm

Pop stars aren't expected to behave that way, but rock stars are. And Lady Gaga is a rock star working in the pop idiom.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 3:23pm

If I can hide mine and wear a one piece, then anyone with an average sized peni could do what she does.

I wouldn't touch that with a ten-inch Polack.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 3:28pm

" And Lady Gaga is a rock star working in the pop idiom."

Love the reference, Namo.

and I love what this thread has turned into!

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 3:51pm

Thanks for guessing my size correctly, PJ!

[snl89]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 4:54pm

"Pop stars aren't expected to behave that way, but rock stars are. And Lady Gaga is a rock star working in the pop idiom."

I agree with this :) GaGa captures the spirit of rock WAY more than most other "rock artists" these days. She may do pop style music, but she's one of the most legitimate rockstars we've got today imo

For the record, I feel the same way about Adam :P He may not be quite as polished as GaGa yet, but he's a quick learner. He'll get there. He has all the talent, guts, and charisma to really shake things up and be huge

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 7:59pm

No, Adam's not going to get there. He simply doesn't have IT. Gaga does. I suggest you take a closer look at Semi-Precious Weapons, who I recommended on these boards last year (and if I recall correctly, nobody responded to my post), because Justin Tranter and the boys have got IT. Justin's everything Adam wishes he could one day aspire to be. But Justin's already there. There's a reason Lady Gaga picked Semi-Precious Weapons to open the tour, and now that Kid Cudi's gone from the tour, lucky Gaga fans get a longer SPW set.

THAT is rock and roll. That is glam. Adam is just a simulacrum.

And TheaterDiva, I'm afraid I'm going to have to judge for myself how well you tuck. And in person. You could just be Photoshopping.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 10:46pm

Different strokes for different folks I guess haha. I think I've youtubed Semiprecious Weapons before, and found them pretty annoying. Didn't enjoy them at all. But I personally feel Adam has IT out the wazoo. In fact, I'm kind of amazed that anyone would use that particular argument against him haha. Because I think 99% of people can at least agree that he's got intense amounts of charisma. Most people, if they don't like him, tend to either not like his vocal stylings or they're homophobic. I've heard plenty of people say he comes across as trying too hard, but I've VERY rarely- if ever- heard anyone say he doesn't have the charisma! Aside from his out-of-this-world voice, I think most people tend to agree that his charisma is precisely his greatest strength :)


Not saying you're not totally entitled to not like him, I just find it funny because I've heard a lot of things against Adam, but a lack of charisma or IT factor is noooot one of the common ones haha


For the record, as this article shows, GaGa really likes Adam And Adam is like the BIGGEST GaGa fanboy haha. It's kind of ridiculous how much he has gushed about her. I would totally bet that at some point in the future they'll either tour or do a performance together or something.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/6/10 at 11:20pm

Gaga loves the gays so of course she loves Adam. And she sold him a song for his record, so the better his cd does the stronger her income stream.

I guess Adam has charisma, and he certainly seemed like a nice young man on all those soft-spoken (by necessity and/or record company orders) post-VMA interviews he did. But a rock star (which is where you brought him into this discussion) would NEVER have done those interviews, no matter how much his bosses strong-armed him.

Here's the thing, after his Today Show performance when he went out to greet the crowd, polite and gentle Adam seemed very open and patient with his fans who were, to large degree, late middle-aged white ladies. Mothers and grandmas. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but a rock star's crowd it was not. And a rock star's crowd he will never get. And a rock star he will never be.

After Lady Gaga finishes her set on The Monster Ball Tour, Semi-Precious Weapons (whom many people have probably never heard before their set) does meet and greets in venue lobbies. EVERYBODY goes crazy for Justin. He poses for pictures and hugs. Right as the tour began, a new press photo of the band was released, where everybody else in Semi Precious Weapons is holding a black and white photocopy of Justin's face in front of their own. By about the fourth date of the tour, kids in the audience were making their own and bringing them to the shows.

Every show Justin strips down to his nylons and completely changes his outfit and shoes while the band jams behind him. By the time the tour got to San Francisco, kids in the crowd were ALSO changing their outfits during the instrumental. This is what happens when exciting and creative rock and roll catches on.

The album I recommended last year on Razor & Tie Records, Semi-Precious Weapons "WE LOVE YOU" is no longer available. It's being remastered, and new songs are being recorded and Lady Gaga is executive producing it and it is going to be rereleased on Interscope, the label Gaga's on. Most likely, this will contribute to their incredible upward trajectory.

They write their own music, they have two guitars and a drum set, and an incredibly creative front man. That's rock and roll.

Adam is a simulacrum. (There. I used that word twice today.) Maybe moms and grandmoms will like Justin too. But they will have to be pretty groovy moms and grandmoms.

Updated On: 1/6/10 at 11:20 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:19am

^Just for the record, Adam has CRAAAAZY crazy fans haha. During the Idol tour, he had fans throwing bras and panties and even dildos on stage (again, that's the IDOL tour- one that's typically very much a wholesome family show). He stood on the American Idols live stage every night, and humped the microphone stand during Whole Lotta Love. He did stripper moves and major hip gyrations and his whole set revolved sexy, slinky dance moves. There's a reason the Rolling Stone cover described him as "Idol's Wild Child". Yeah, maybe in comparison to REAL rock shows what he did on Idol and during the tour wasn't that risque, but that's only because it was still the IDOL show! The fact that he was overtly sexual at ALL on the Idol stage is darn radical!

The Early Show crowd may have been a bit older, but he's actually got a very diverse fanbase age wise. And in fact, I'm pretty sure based on internet polls the 20-30 year old age group is his biggest fan constituency. Granted that may be skewed slightly by the fact that young people are more internet savvy, but still. He's got a DEFINITE young female fanbase.

And in terms of gutsiness/risk taking/etc... hullo, AMA performance! hahaha. Now obviously that performances wasn't GOOD (that's why I said, he's still learning and growing when it comes to creating great large scale performances with dancers and stuff- that one was a hot mess and I'm confident he knows that). But I don't think anyone can really argue it didn't take MAJOR balls to do what he did. If you want to measure "rockstar cred" on sheer "caution to the wind", gutsy attitude, Adam is about as legit rockstar as you can get! The performance was very weak vocally (especially considering that the amazing vocals are his thing) and sloppy over all, but come on now.. you've gotta at least give him that it was a MAJORLY risky thing to do. To get up there on a highly watched national television program and simulate a blowjob with another guy, make out with a male band member, and in general being EXTREMELY overtly sexual? That takes cojones! That's the only way to put it, really

Now in terms of musicality, I'd argue that Adam may not play an instrument, but his voice IS his instrument. He can do things with his voice most people couldn't even DREAM of. His vocal ability isn't just the kind that someone can wake up one day and have. He's worked hard to be able to do the things he does with that thing. So yeah, I'd argue it's an instrument.

Songwriting.. sure, a lot of the songs on his album were contributed by other people, but he DID help write some very cool ones. In my opinion, Strut, Pick U Up, and Broken Open (3 that he co-wrote on) are some of the strongest songs on the album. And Down The Rabbit Hole (a bonus itunes track) is awesome also- he co-wrote for that as well. So he definitely has some writing chops! Is he the BEST writer ever? Nah, but he'll get better. He's fantastic with words in general and he's extremely musically adept and creative, so there's no reason he can't create great music! And even if he continues to do lots of collaborations in the future rather than writing songs himself, that's just the way he likes to work. He likes to collaborate- I don't think that takes away any of his musical credibility


So yeah... with all do respect, especially if you're judging rockstar cred based on the kinds of reactions he's able to elicit from fans and the sheer balls he has to shock people and take risks- that's precisely what DOES make Adam stand out so much! Oh and he's also got one of the best voices of anyone out there today, and vocal talent should count for something :) (Lady GaGa is actually the ONLY other huge artist out there right now that I can think of who actually has a fantastic voice- it amazes me how many other pop artists lip sync, let alone even having a DECENT live voice. So Adam and GaGa truly stand out on a vocal level)

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 12:19 AM

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:32am

I just don't find Adam sexy. I do like the way he looks-gorgeous eyes. I like his makeup, hair and outfits too. But he lacks sex appeal for me. In fact, I'd rather share a pizza with him than a bed!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:56am

Speaking of pizza, I saw one of his performance in high-def and, well, he should have done "Rebel Rebel" ("you've torn your dress and your face is a mess").

snl, I get you're enthusiastic, why, your sheer use of exclamation points is evidence of that. I don't know if you followed the other thread where I was discussing him, but somebody pointed out that I shouldn't judge Adam's debut based on 30 second song clips so I went out and bought the physical CD so I could hear it in its full uncompressed glory. And it's JUST NOT VERY GOOD. Too many producers, too many writers, no consistent artistic point of view, a mish mosh, aimless and derivative. But with the requisite vocal pyrotechnics required of all Idols. AND TOO MUCH G.D. AUTOTUNE if this is really about the "Hey, you can't argue he doesn't have the chops!" line.

I guess there's a chance that he might become a decent interpreter of other people's songs one day and maybe when he's 45 he can play Feinstein's and the middle aged gays and the older ladies can clap along when he says "And here's one from my 2013 Christmas CD right before the label dropped me" and everybody can have a pleasant time. That's fine. Eventually the world will need another Sam Harris.

But other than that, to me he has not demonstrated he can really do very much. Are we really supposed to take note that he humped a mic stand while doing "Whole Lotta Love"? I mean, what else does a person do when covering "Whole Lotta Love"? Are we really supposed to think it was revolutionary to be vaguely gay on the 2009 VIDEO MUSIC AWARDS? REALLY?

You wanna know what was radical? It was radical when Kurt Cobain, the biggest rock star in the world at the time, made out with his bass player over the closing credits of Saturday Night Live. IN 1992!

Adam Lambert miscalculated the shock value and completely blew the one thing everybody said he's good at, THE SINGING. That is not only not radical, it's a failure of massive proportions.

And I have to tell you, the co-songwriting credit is the oldest trick in the book. Madonna changed like a word on "Papa Don't Preach" and took a co-writing credit and royalties.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:01am

Ahhh and see, the fact that Adam's album is so eclectic and varied is precisely what I love about it :)

Actually, as talented as Lady GaGa is (and she IS), I actually can't bring myself to buy a full copy of her albums. I love Bad Romance (especially after seeing the epic video) and Speechless is incredible, and Just Dance and Paparazzi are fun. And Fever is definitely my favorite song on Adam's album.

But... most of her other songs? They're just TOO dance oriented for me personally.

I'm usually not such a big fan of electronic music, but the reason I love Adam's is because it's so varied. Some is straight up dance, but a lot of it is electronic with ROCK roots- something GaGa's isn't so much. And some of it isn't even really electronic at all.

GaGa IS a fantastic songwriter- I know that from Speechless and seeing her older videos and stuff. She's incredible. But based on about half of what's on her albums? You wouldn't really be able to tell! A lot of her music alone doesn't show off how talented she really is.

Don't get me wrong, as dance music goes, she's DEFINITELY on the better end. But.. I just still don't think a lot of her music shows off how good she is. With Adam's, at least it's varied enough that you DO get to hear his amazing vocals shine through!

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 01:01 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:05am

"Eclectic and varied" is sometimes the nice way of saying "calculated by people in suits to dabble in as many marketing niches as possible", aka, lowest common denominator product.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:23am

^Certainly I'm sure there's some truth to that. Mind you, the album was made in like 2 1/2 months. If WAS rushed, and I think that his next album will probably be more focused and a better showcase of exactly what artistic direction he wants to go in.

But I also think that the eclectic aspect IS part of his "thing" as an artist. He has the ability and the musical knowledge to do lots of different styles. He's amazing at classic rock Queen-esque stuff, but he also LOVES electronic, more dance-influenced music. He also really connects well with more vulnerable, natural songs a la Whataya Want From Me.

Now what my personal hope is for his next album, is that he'll really delve into the "dance/rock fusion" thing that a handful of the songs on For Your Entertainment play with, and perfect that more. And get rid of the fluff that was kind of just put there as a safety net incase the fusion stuff was too "weird" for people to get (Sleepwalker, Aftermath, Whataya Want From Me). Not that those songs are BAD necessarily, and it's not that he doesn't do them very well. But for purposes of focusing and polishing his artistic style, I do agree that he needs to focus himself more for next time. There should still be a nice fusion of styles, but there shouldn't be songs that are just thrown in there because they're sure safe hits and he can sing them well. He can sing almost ANYTHING well, so that really can't be the basis by which they measure what he should be doing haha.

He's definitely got something going with the rock/dance fusion. It's new and it's a very cool sound imo. And I think given more time, he could make even BETTER songs in that style. That's where he should be going :)

I love nearly every song on his album, mostly because I find his voice gorgeous, and I DO like that there's a little bit of everything on there, but I also see how some of the songs sound way more like the artists who wrote them than they do "Adam songs". I mean obviously his voice gives them that Adam touch, but still.. Whataya Want From Me is gorgeous, but pure Pink. Sleepwalker is great but pure Ryan Tedder. Aftermath is pretty but very cliche classic rock ballad. And so for next time around, it really has to be about him focusing in on his own distinct sound. It can still be ecclectic and fusion-based, but it shouldn't sound like someone else's style. And I think he has the ability to do that, I really do. Strut, Down The Rabbit Hole, Broken Open, Pick U Up.. THOSE all have a coherent, Adam-esque sound to them for me. So that's what they need to go with.

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 01:23 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:33am

See, you're doing qualifier after qualifier, making excuses and explaining it was rushed and all that. And then he goes out on the VMAs and blows it. The cd's a mess but you assure me it was rushed and his vocals were horrible on the VMAs but he put a guy's face in his crotch for a second and a half! And I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by your calling something as computer-enhanced as "Whattya Want From Me" as "natural."

But this is where we are today. Thanks to the shortcuts afforded a few people every Idol season somebody like Adam ends up in the spotlight before he's ready for it. And because people watch the show week after week they root for these people and feel as if they "know" them and they make excuses for the fact that they simply haven't worked their way up to the level they're thrust into.

The rock/dance fusion isn't new. It's very hard to come up with something new, in a world where it's pretty much all been done before. But a real artist, a real rock star, absorbs everything that's come before and puts their own spin on it in their own way and connects with audiences on a visceral level. This is what Gaga does, she acknowledges her influences everywhere including in her stage name, and that is what Justin Tranter does. That's why they're on a completely different plane than Adam Lambert. A plane he will never be on.

[Craww]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:10am

...I don't understand how you two can possibly be rehashing the same old "Adam rocks!!!" ... "No, Adam Lambert is incontrovertibly useless" argument. At such great length, too.

Adam Lambert is kind of wasted potential. Somebody with his style and instincts would do much cooler things with a song written by Craig Wedren than he would with a song written by Max Martin. But I don't know that his potential to grow within his pop niche is sealed with his first album. I disagree that the album is complete trash, I think he could put out something really good with more focus.

Never gonna be glam rock, though.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:12am

^But the thing is that it WAS rushed. It's not really an excuse, it's just a fact. ALL Idol debut albums are rushed. They're NEVER the absolute best they can be. That said, I definitely would never say the album is a mess. On the contrary, as Idol debut albums go I still think it IS probably the best! I love it. I was just providing my opinion as to what, constructively, could be done to build on it for the 2nd album. There was one review that described the album as "a rough draft of what could be a very exciting career", and I think that's a great way of putting it- a rough draft. Not BAD, just a beginning.

And... I kind of find it interesting that you love Lady GaGa but you think Adam uses way too much autotune! Only because GaGa uses every bit as much technology on her voice. Doesn't mean either of them aren't fantastic singers. Heck, is "autotune" even the right word for it? Because I know for a FACT Adam doesn't need pitch correction. Watch any video of him singing 100% acapella and you know that he does NOT have pitch issues. The only time he gets pitchy is on rare occasion when his nerves/adrenaline kick in and get the better of him (that's what happened at the AMAs). And when that happens, he himself will be the first to cringe and say the vocals were all over the place. So yeah, I know it's synths and stuff, but if actual autotune technology is used to pitch correct, I don't see why they'd even bother to use it for someone who hits the right notes anyway. haha

And in terms of the AMA performers:
If radicalness is measured by the reaction that a person's action incites, then yes, what Adam did WAS radical! This wasn't the MTV VMAs- this was The AMERICAN Music Awards on ABC. It SHOULDN'T have caused the uproar it did, I totally agree on that. It HAS been done before. But it's always been done by females before this. This was the first time that a gay guy got onstage at a live nationally televised performance in a major network channel, and did explicitly sexual moves with other men. Like I said, it shouldn't have caused the ridiculous uproar that it did, and I don't think Adam ever went in intending to piss people off. But it was completely ballsy nonetheless. He's not stupid- he absolutely meant for it to shock people. Not to make people ANGRY (which is what ended up happening), but to shock people, in true rockstar fashion.

I'm just confused as to how all of these other things you mentioned can be gutsy and radical, but yet Adam getting up there and being 100% explicitly sexual with another man in a performance on a MAJOR network channel like ABC is "just putting a guy's face in his crotch for a second and half". I WISH we were living in a time where it was that inconsequential! But we're not. And the AMA debacle at least opened up a VERY important dialogue about some huge double standards in our society. So yeah, I do consider it pretty darn radical. The fact that it wasn't a good performance in general doesn't take away from the reaction and dialogue that it sparked.

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 02:12 AM

[toanythingtaboo 2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 11:14am

Personally, as listenable as Adams debut album was at parts...I'm holding off judgement until his next one.

'For Your Entertainment' and everything surrounding it just seems a bit of a hot mess, which I don't think is an accurate representation of what Adam should or will be doing further on in his career. I think they tried to present him as a full glam/rock/pop artist package from the get go, which might have worked if he was self made...a la GaGa...but it came across as manufactured and forced. The thing is, if his music was fantastic, people would over look all his flaws...but it isn't. It's too generic and largely fails to show off what makes him really stand out - his voice. I get what he/they were trying to do, but I just get the impression they didn't know what to do with him...and he kind of had to put himself in their hands.

There's a rumour going around that GaGa actually has her own label in the works, under Interscope. SPW apparently announced they were signed to 'Haus of GaGa' or words to that effect. It would be incredibly ideal for Adam to sign, or at least work with GaGa and her team more. They've got it right.

Plus, when GaGa does use auto-tune/vocoder etc. it kind of just adds to her sound, the robotic/futuristic style. 'The Fame' was far more guilty of vocal editing, but since her voice has gotten a lot stronger. I do wish she would show off her voice more, she really doesn't need any pitch correction or anything. The use of it at the VMA's worked, but when she used it at the AMA's it didn't really. Fair enough though, it was quite a demanding performance.

Anywayyyys, back to the topic. I'm not sure how much of this story I believe, I can completely imagine her doing it...but she always seems to have a posse of her Haus and security with her. Considering what a passionate young lady she is, I wouldn't be surprised if it were true to some degree and I'm not going to slate her for throwing a drink over someone who was being incredibly rude and insulting to both her and a friend. She did, after all, attempt to be civil...but when you get hot headed you don't always think everything through. We're all guilty of it, but at least her intentions were good.
Updated On: 1/7/10 at 11:14 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:19pm

Taboo, I agree with your assessments. Craww, I invested the time to write out my posts not because I wanted to take part in an "Adam rocks" "Adam doesn't!" dialogue. I wrote about it because Gaga has got me thinking about pop music now in ways few people have in years.

I've just focussed on a few things here I think about her and her impact on the larger culture. I have many other thoughts about her and where she fits in a pop world that has largely drifted aimlessly since the post-pubescence of a bunch of Mousketeers a whole lot of people (including cultural vampire Madonna) wrong-headedly hitched their wagon to.

If radicalness is measured by the reaction that a person's action incites, then yes, what Adam did WAS radical! That's a pretty big "if." You're saying that because a hypocritical culture that's hung up on sex and takes its cues from loud mouthed conservatives had an overblown reaction to a few fairly mild actions it means Adam's radical, but what it means is the loudmouths who made the stir are radical.

And, taboo, I think you TOTALLY nailed it when you said:

I think they tried to present him as a full glam/rock/pop artist package from the get go, which might have worked if he was self made.

THAT'S absolutely right and THAT'S where Semi-Precious Weapons come in.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:48pm

^ yeah I agree. Just compare Adam to David Bowie.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:24pm

But that's like comparing a scan of a xerox of a painting of an apple to a painting of an apple.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:19pm

Entirely my point.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 3:01pm

I don't entirely disagree with you guys. Although I hardly consider For Your Entertainment to be a hot mess (it's actually one of the only albums I can listen to all the way through and not skip any songs), I get how it can come across as a bit manufactured/forced.

I think maybe some of the difference here is that I've been an Idol fan for so long, I've kind of gotten used to viewing Idol debut albums a certain way.. I don't really put them on the same playing field as established pop artists, because for all intents and purposes they're never really to that point yet. Idol is kind of strange, because it pushes artists into the limelight before they really get a chance to develop themselves as artists. Now Adam DOES actually have a lot more of a concrete artistic viewpoint than a lot of other Idol alum. But nevertheless, he still never got a chance to go through the whole music making process as it's normally done prior to Idol. He hasn't gotten a chance yet to experiment with what works and what doesn't, how to make fusion music that's still coherent, etc. And I'm not making excuses, it's just that the Idol machine WORKS that way. It gets people in the spotlight before they've fully developed themselves as artists.

The thing is, though, none of that means Adam WON'T get there. It's just a matter of viewing it in a different way. I kind of view For Your Entertainment as... on a similar level to what GaGa might have been doing 5 or so years ago, you know what I mean? When she was still cultivating herself as an artist and finding a way to effectively mesh all her different influences.

So I just think it's silly to say "oh his album is kind of all over the place and thrown together quickly- that means he's not good enough for the real world of pop music". Maybe if he WAS self made and his album was still this way then that would be true, but as it is, all it means is that we're seeing his musical process from earlier on than we get to see self made artists. That's why I think that each album he makes will get better and better, and he WILL start to cultivate a more polished, unique, coherent style. Just because he's not there yet doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability. It's just that he's just starting the process.



"That's a pretty big "if." You're saying that because a hypocritical culture that's hung up on sex and takes its cues from loud mouthed conservatives had an overblown reaction to a few fairly mild actions it means Adam's radical, but what it means is the loudmouths who made the stir are radical."

Right, I totally get what you're saying, but at the same time, doesn't the mildness or non-mildness of an action depend on the culture in which it is carried out? We more progressive folks may see it as not a big deal, but if we live in a culture- however ridiculous it may be- where it DOES become a huge issue, doesn't that mean that the action was pretty gutsy? All I'm saying is, there's a REASON no male performer (especially no GAY male performer) had ever done what Adam did before. Heck, there's a reason there are still tons of gay people in the entertainment industry who aren't even publicly out yet! It's because it's a risk. And simply by continuing to be overtly sexual onstage as a gay man (even if it's not the that extent anymore), Adam actually has the potentially to really change the game. Up til now, gay men in the entertainment industry have been largely non-sexual. Some may be flamboyant and obviously gay, but very few have been openly sexual. And Adam, simply by being the performer that he is, has the potential to make it so that gay men can be sexual on stage in the same way female performers always are, and eventually it won't be a big deal. And yeah, I consider that radical.

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 03:01 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 4:21pm

snl, you're folding a lot of issues in there, and I appreciate that because I have a tendency to do that myself, but not all of them belong. And of course, you can't be held responsible for not knowing about things you haven't been exposed to.

For instance, David Bowie made headlines and photos appeared all over the place on the Ziggy Stardust tour in 1972 of him on his knees in front of his guitarist, simulating fellatio. It was such an iconic image, Hedwig does an homage to it in both the stage show and the movie of Hedwig & The Angry Inch.

And Adam, simply by being the performer that he is, has the potential to make it so that gay men can be sexual on stage in the same way female performers always are, and eventually it won't be a big deal.

I think you're looking at the world through Idol-colored glasses. You're willing to excuse rushed albums and performers who are in no way ready to carry a couple of songs, let alone a tour, being tossed out there like puppets long before they're ready. It really hasn't worked out very well in terms of career for many of them, except for the couple who have zeroed in on a genre they can squeeze themselves into, whether its organic or not. I'm sure when you're caught up in the excitement of voting and the whirl of being manipulated into a frenzy by Fox, you kind of lose perspective on the relative "importance" of these performers. There are cultural moments that happen all the time that contribute to societal shifts, and I'm afraid I don't see Adam's VMA performance as being even up there with a gay male love scene on One Life to Live recently.

[snl89]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 4:59pm

^Maybe I am viewing things through too much of an Idol-centered lens, but I reeeally don't think I am in this case.

Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about David Bowie and others who may have done sexual things like that in the past. And I totally acknowledge that that may skew my view of things. But I still can't help but feel it means SOMETHING that the AMA debacle literally was the story the next day. I really do try and keep some perspective with Idol-related things and remember that not everyone follows Idol alum like I do. I never expected Adam to start selling a gazillion albums right out of the gate or anything. My very HIGH hope for his first week sales was like 300k, and I was extremely happy with the 200k that he got.

And believe me, in terms of the AMAs I WISH that it hadn't become the ridiculous news story it did! It was a weak first impression for him to give the people who hadn't seen him on Idol, and I hated that people who didn't really know about him would see that and assume that was who he was.

But I just think it's a little remiss to completely overlook the conversation that that performance started. Was it THE hugest "scandal" ever? Nah, it wasn't even the biggest news story of 2009 and I totally get that. But it WAS nevertheless very far reaching. I mean, my mom for instance barely even watches TV these days, if you ask her about virtually any pop culture story of recently there's a 90% chance she won't know what you're talking about. And yet she saw the story about Adam and the AMAs (without my telling her or talking to her about it at all). I know that's not the most telling example, but my point is just that.. it was not some small Idol-bubble news story. It WAS a large pop culture moment from this year. Whether it should have been or not is another story, but it was.

I'm not saying that Adam is going to be THE most remembered person of all time and he's going to change to world, or anything like that. That would be ridiculous. But I still do think that he has a lot of potential to shake things up, in terms of how male sexuality- more specifically homosexuality- is viewed in the entertainment industry.

And just in terms of the Bowie reference- if I recall, Bowie has never been publicly out, has he? I know that may seem like an inconsequential difference, but.. I DO think it makes a difference. I probably worded it a little differently than I should have before: Adam isn't the first man to do sexual moves with other men in performances, or for art. I get that. But I DO believe that he's the first openly gay performer (not just "acting gay" enough so everyone knows, but actually being totally openly gay) to, at the very beginning of his career, go out and do explicitly gay moves on a very large scale, live televised major network show. I know that's very specific, but yet it really is a pretty big deal.

I'm absolutely not brushing off the significance of what people like David Bowie have done in the past. Those WERE very big deals. But I also think that you might be kind of doing the opposite extreme of what you feel I'm doing: assuming that just because someone comes from the Idol machine that they couldn't possibly do anything of great significance. You know what I mean? And trust me, you're not the only one! TONS of people seem to assume that no one coming from Idol could ever possibly have a truly substantial career or work up to a "legendary" status. And I just don't personally believe that's true. NOT to insinuate that I expect Adam to become a legend- I wouldn't ever EXPECT anything like that and I would never EVER try and claim that he's aaaaanywhere even remotely near that status at this point. But even Adam aside, I just don't believe in writing off the potential for people from American Idol- or any other mainstream media machine for that matter- to become truly great. Because Idol is really just a platform for exposure- nothing more.

I think Adam has the most potential of anyone to come from Idol yet to do something great, but even if it's not Adam, I still think SOMEONE could. I just don't think anyone should be written off just because of how they initially get their start. If they're legitimately great, then they will work their way up and earn peoples' respect! If someone truly great just so happens to get their initial start by going through the Idol machine, does that negate their greatness?