Madonna's New Single "Celebration"- Page 2

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 8:35am

Namo, by hating her now, do you think you're giving her credit for coming up with enough "fresh" material for as long as she did?

For someone who is marginally talented, she sure stayed on top for a longer time than most artists, and on top is an understatement.

If her well has dried up, it's understandable.

p.s. I know you've given her credit by saying you used to love her. I just think you're being a little over the top critical of her now.

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 08:35 AM

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 9:40am

I dont think the problem is that shes dried up of her creativity, all what happened was Hard Candy she did what she does not normally do and she bowed down to the preasure of the label and the American market

I dont think anything can be judged on a new single which is just a collobaration with a dance producer to produce a dance song for the clubs in summer

And as far as the talent thing goes
Everyone knows she is not the best of singers, she knows that her self and has said so, but she is a world class performer who knows how to give the audience what they want.
She is a pretty good song writer and has an amazing eye for whats happening in the world and who to work with.

In 50 years when Madonna is gone she will be remembered for some great pop songs, an iconic image, her influence on fashion, gay culture, pop culture, art, the birth of the music video along with jacko, her live performances and for been one hell of a business woman......however she wontbe remembered for her voice or her films (swept away anyone?)

It always bugs me a little when people refer to her of having little talent. Just because her talent is not her singing voice she has more talent in her little finger when it comes to the rest of the business than most artists do

You dont stay on top for 25 years by simply shocking, eventually people want a product, and she delivers that

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 12:06pm

I. Am. So. Tired. Of. The. "She's the first to admit she's not the greatest singer!". Argument. That's not even the discussion point.

At least the people who consistantly rally against her make good points based on fact rather than 1 sad voices personal opinion.

I list and list and list the facts and points and somehow the other people who do it "at least" do that and are not just offering their personal opinions? Okaaaaaaay. If you say so. It's funny to watch how you defend Madonna's artistry with sales figures and chart positions. I don't care about that crap in the least. What I am confused by is the lack of quality or artistic growth on the part of a woman who used to have both. You do realize, songanddance, like all pop stars who stay on the scene, her relevancy is gone. That's fine, pop music doesn't have to be relevant, but Madonna has over-worked so hard to claim relevancy and importance but you've managed to think sales figures are in some way a measure of that.

Jane, I do give her credit for how creative and fresh she USED TO BE. But she's not anymore. And the "grim determination" (to use Graham Norton's phrase about Madonna) that floats like an oily film on top of her product now is the exact opposite of what an exciting and dynamic pop performer does. Which, as you say, is understandable. She had a great run. But it's so over. And it amuses the hell out of me when people listen to stuff like this Celebration song (even if it is "just" a collaboration and "just" a summer song) with their own two ears and then, as Judge Judy might say, pee on their own legs and tell themselves it's raining.

The failure of American Life in the market is exactly where her creativity died. Not to mention the enormous misstep of the American Pie single and every calculated move afterwards.

all what happened was Hard Candy she did what she does not normally do and she bowed down to the preasure of the label

THAT happened with Confessions on a Dance Floor which was Madonna throwing the gears of her career in reverse and stooping to basing the first single on a ABBA hook! ABBA! Who had already been done to death. She went with the lowest common denominator, the single sold, and she has gone absolutely nowhere ever since. She painted herself in the corner with that album and tour, because the feedback she got in the US from all the "dancing queens" in the audience was that THIS is what they like. NOW where does she go? A cover of "Boogie Fever" by The Sylvers?

The returns will continue to diminish. Live Nation signed her as a loss leader knowing there was no way they were ever going to make money off her future recordings but hoping she would look like a big enough catch they'd be able to lure other unsuspecting pop stars to their stable.

That's fine, there are plenty of rock and pop acts that go on and on as a touring act. But the blind followers of all things Madonna would do well not to listen to every new cut she releases (as has been happening since Confessions) and announce that Madonna's "Back on form!" and "THIS cut is the Madonna we always loved!" because when you do it everytime, your credibility is shot when the rest of us can look back and say, "That's what you said six months ago about ________."

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 12:06 PM

[Q]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 1:06pm

For Jane, just because.

[Luscious]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 1:06pm

Love it!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 1:37pm

This is my summer anthem.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 1:41pm

Whenever I hear autotune and a guy saying "shorty!" I think of those hilarious news remixes and smile. Summer anthems should make you smile. Shorty.

Okay, I'm buying that one, Phyllis.

Oh, and Q, leave us not forget this incredible scene from one of my favorite movies from one of my favorite performers ever. Back when Madonna had interesting friends!

FUNK

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 01:41 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:06pm

O. M. G. !!!!!! Q-YOU MADE MY DAY-MAYBE MY WHOLE WEEKEND!

Thank you soOOOOOOOO much! I'm going to figure out how to save that!

xoxoxoxoxoxoxox

I forgot to mention that Sylvester is the only man I ever saw who could look good in a full length blackglama mink...............

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 02:06 PM

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:07pm

"Jane, I do give her credit for how creative and fresh she USED TO BE."

Apart from Ray Of Light do you mind telling me at what point in her earlier years she was creative and fresh with her music?

Even as a Madonna fan i will be the 1st to admit that her music in the 80s and through the 90s up to Ray Of Light was nothing new, it was just very well doneand well produced pop records.

The fist album and Like A Virgin were nothing new, she had taken insparation from black artists at the time and dance music of the early 80s, many of the songs out at that time sounded the same.

True Blue was a great album, brilliantly written and produced but with the exception of Papa Dont Preach and Live To Tell it was a bubblegum pop album (wheres the party, open your heart, white heat, true blue etc)

Like A Prayer was fantastic but the sound was nothing new, what made it stand out was that the lyrics were pretty personal and with her VIDEOS she was breaking new ground and causing a stir (Like A Prayer been the obvious one), the sound again though was pop, plain and simple, well produced but still pop

Erotica was a an album where she tried something a little new, her influence of soul, jazz and new rythems were evident in songs like Waiting but the pop sound was still very much in full force (Deeper and Deeper was a re hash of Vogue, Rain followed the same pallet as Live To Tell, Erotica was Justify My Love part 2 etc), she tried to experiment a bit with this album but failed in the US

Bedtime Stories was Madonna's 1st attempt at RnB and its probably one of her most forgetable albums, creativity was not evident on this album, the sound was very much around at the time and with the exception of Take A Bow and Human Nature it was pretty much Madonna trying to fit in with the RnB crowd, hell even Babyface worked with her who was overexpossed at that point and a low point was dragging in Bjork.

It was Ray of Light where she became very creative by working with the right people, looking underground and listening to what was happening, and it paid off, as did Music to a lesser extent

American Life was not creative in the slightest, it was an extentsion of the past 2 albums with a sound that was growing old and tired.

Confessions went back to what she did best, fun catchy pop/dance music like at the begining of her carear (you know, the bit you thought she was fresh and creative), it was pure fun, a CD designed as a long play for the clubs...and it worked brilliantly...as the fans and the critics said.

Hard Candy was Bedtime Stories 2 and whilst not the disaster Bedtime Stories were it didnt doher any favors, yet a handfull of great tracks came off it.

So exactly at what point was Madonna musically fresh and creative Namo? Like i said, even as a huge Madonna fan i can say that her music is good, wel produced, catchy and will be around for a long time, but as for been fresh and creative.....no (with the exception of Ray Of Light)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:14pm

Oh for god's sake. So many criticisms you have and yet you have this incredible need to refute every criticism I make as if they somehow aren't valid because I don't like her (now).

The best and most creative pop artists by definition take what has come before and recombine them in new and interesting and fresh ways. Which is what Madonna did from the second album on. UNTIL she ran out of steam at the end of American Life.

Given that I bought into her myth that she was a creative artist with artistic integrity (think of her slurping soup as her father asks her to tone it down in Truth or Dare), I was totally into American Life because she was interested in moving forward with her political topicality and her sound. The American Life tour show I saw is still one of my favorite concerts ever.

But after that she slammed on the brakes and went backwards. You excuse it as "doing what she does best" but it was very clearly a capitulation and a surrender. So, fine. Let her spin her wheels and stay stuck. There are much better people out there now doing much better work. Enjoy your bedroom dancefloor as you convince yourself "Celebration" is (yet another) return to what Madonna does best. But there's a whole world outside of your fantasy of Madonna's creativity and relevance.

[mariusmyhomeboy]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:16pm

Meh. It's okay, but not amazing. The anthems this summer were definitely "fire burning", "Boom Boom Pow" by the Black Eyed Peas (love it), and "LoveGame" by Lady GaGa.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:20pm

Sorry Sandy, Sylvester you're not. I like the woman, got to know her when her show was at my theater. But she's always off pitch.

She did a pretty good job of Little Red Corvette, though.

[Q]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:21pm

"Sylvester you're not"

Damn few were, are or will be

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:21pm

LMAO So you are one of the 7 people on the planet who liked American Life, well your judgment must be right then

It was not original in any way, her political views are hardly views at all (Vote Obama...OK) and the lyrics were appaling to many of the songs (Hollywood, American Life, Im So Stupid, Love Porfusion etc) one song came out of that mess and that was Nothing Fails.

The Reinvention tour again was a tour which many fans enjoyed but saw as been artistically bankrupt yet very entertaining.

Madonna herself was very fresh and creative, her attitude, her image, her shows, her strong sexuality and her confidence etc, as well as been a brilliant business woman, but her music was great but nothing new....she just did it bigger and better and she still does.

And this is not about refuting your criticism's of her because you dont like her, this is plain and simple debate

I dont think some of your points are valid (her been fresh and creative with her music earlier) and i will tell you why...its quite simple really

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:22pm

I just don't like it.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:28pm

Namo used the term Turdblossom, and know,I keep thinking of Karl Rove and Madonna together.

It is an image I must get out of my head.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 2:30pm

lolololol

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 5:43pm

Perhaps it's a language barrier but I find it curious that you would consider this discussion a debate, songanddance. It's curious because you want to argue both sides. If I say Madonna was once very good at creating pop product, you say my critical assessment is not valid because I hate her now and then you list the reasons why you think her earlier work was not good.

If I say her recent work is terrible and glum and plodding and desperate, you say my criticism is not valid because I hate her now and then you list all the places where this awful recent stuff has sold well as if this somehow proves I am wrong. If I praise American Life because it was an continuation of the direction she obviously wanted to go in artistically, market be damned, you point out that nobody liked it so I must be wrong in appreciating that she stuck to her guns and released what she wanted to.

Then you praise the glum recent work as being a return to form and what she does best, forgetting that you have worked so hard to dismiss the early stuff for some reason.

That's not a debate, that's being oppositional for the sake of it.

In a year or so when the first awful Madonna Live Nation contract album - inevitably to be called "M(adonna)ILF" or something with one single produced by MGMT - you can talk about how the "totally original and fantastic new single '(You All Have Got to) Get Into the Beat!' is Madonna doing what Madonna does best: relaxing and dancing and releasing a simple song not meant to have any deep meaning!"

Yes, she and you are just that predictable.

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 05:43 PM

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 6:54pm

Namo im sorry but its like you dont listen

"and then you list the reasons why you think her earlier work was not good. "

At what point did i say her earlier work was not good?, i said its great pop music but musically she wasnt doing anything new and creative....i said that about 4 times. Im a huge fan of hers so i think her music is great, i just said that it was not creative and fresh musically, it was brilliant, well produced pop, but thats it.....what part of that did you not understand?

"If I praise American Life because it was an continuation of the direction she obviously wanted to go in artistically, market be damned, you point out that nobody liked it so I must be wrong in appreciating that she stuck to her guns and released what she wanted to"

American Life was just a bad album, i have no problem with her wanting to do what she wanted to do, i like when she takes a few chances, but the simple fact is the output then was not good. Its not like im just saying that to disagree with you, look at the reviews, ask the fans etc, it was a failed attempt.

"Then you praise the glum recent work as being a return to form and what she does best, forgetting that you have worked so hard to dismiss the early stuff for some reason"

Again i have not dismissed anything, ive said that her music from the 80s early 90s was brilliant pop music, and i also said the Confessions was brilliant pop music.
I also stated i dont think the new single is her best but its nice to see her putting out a fun pop/dance song again after the rather lackluser Hard Candy

"In a year or so when the first awful Madonna Live Nation contract album - inevitably to be called "M(adonna)ILF" or something with one single produced by MGMT - you can talk about how the "totally original and fantastic new single '(You All Have Got to) Get Into the Beat!' is Madonna doing what Madonna does best: relaxing and dancing and releasing a simple song not meant to have any deep meaning!"
Yes, she and you are just that predictable."


And then you finsish your post with another Madonna insult and insult me.

No my friend it's you that is that peredicatble

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 8:06pm

Awful! Why doesn't she spend some time helping some causes with her billions instead of recording crap over and over?

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 8:11pm

Probably because she doesn't have billions.

Are you aware of how much she's done for AIDS?

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 9:25pm

That woman gives so much to charity

[uncageg]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 9:31pm

I was not crazy about American Life but more than 7 people were. it was on at most of the cocktail parties I went to! the year it was released. It was actually really good background music. I didn't buy the entire CD I just bought the single. Bedtime Stories is my favorite by her because she did what I was hoping she would do...go into R&B. The title track is one of my favorite songs. And the CD did go platinum here in the states.

I have been a fan of hers from the beginning (I even have the "SEX" book!) but she is hit or miss for me now. And not enough "hit" for me to buy an entire CD. The last one I bought was Ray of Light and I haven't listened to that CD in God knows how long!

I love R&B and agree that a lot of it sounds the same anymore. But I like what she did with Bedtime Stories. I still listen to that CD all the way through.

So I guess it is a matter of what one likes or dislikes. She was in Denver this past year for 2 nights. I would like to have seen her but I wasn't going to pay that kind of money to hear music I wasn't crazy about! I will watch the DVD! (Maybe!)

But no matter what, she's Madonna. She's out there doing her thing and people still want to hear her and see her. There are so many that started around the time she did and have fallen by the wayside years ago!

Oh, and Q...Sylvester RULES!! Thanks for the clip. Such a loss.

JMO

P.S. - Namo I turned my best friend on to Passion Pit. We are both fans now!

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 09:31 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/1/09 at 11:20pm

I hated Bedtime Stories when it came out. Then this guy I was having a passionate affair with put it on when we were you know and man did that album work for me forever more.

"That woman gives so much to charity"

And you can't fault her for trying to Raise Malawi by buying up orphans as quickly as possible. Plus, she's so cutting edge she has helped redefine the word "orphan" to include children with living parents! God, the woman is Mother Teresa! Little David Panda and baby Menses are so lucky she's their new mom now.

Updated On: 8/1/09 at 11:20 PM

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 8/2/09 at 7:04am

Namo i you are so bitter and bitchy (i hope bitter because if your just plain bitchy i have an amazing image of a little queen in my head)

Raising Malawi is a new thing, and if thats the only thing you think she does for charity then you really dont know very much about her and should not bitch about what you dont know