NJ Equality- Page 2

[mikey2573]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 10:35am

Where does President Obama stand on gay marriage??

[madbrian]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 11:06am

"Where does President Obama stand on gay marriage??"

Somewhere to the right of Dick Cheney. He's hedging big time on this issue, claiming that his views are 'evolving'. In other words, he's being a coward. He's lucky nothing directly addressing marriage equality is crossing his desk.

[Plum]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 3:47pm

He wasn't a believer in full-on gay marriage when he was running for President - I think he was reluctantly okay with civil unions, but that's it IIRC. No idea how he feels about it now.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:17pm

As to the question of whether Christie is anti-gay or just making political moves - I think it's both.

He keeps saying "leave it to the voters" which takes the burden off of him and keeps him "clean" politically. But, marriage equality has been put on the ballot in 31 states and in each state it failed. He knows that. He knows it won't pass if left to the voters. So now he's "clean" morally.

He has stated time and time again that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman.

So, I think it's not just one or the other.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 5:11pm

"He wasn't a believer in full-on gay marriage when he was running for President - I think he was reluctantly okay with civil unions"

Chris Christie is ok with civil unions as well. So it sounds like Obama and Christie are on the same page regarding this issue.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 8:02pm

Barack Obama's views on gay marriage are "evolving"...aka, after he wins re-election and never has to run for office again, he'll suddenly become a supporter of gay marriage, which is almost assuredly how he's felt all along. His cowardice on this issue has disappointed me (because really, there is not one person who believes he's truly against it), and was the biggest reason why I supported Hillary Clinton in 2008 (whose support for the gay community extends back way before it was even popular in her own party to do so). I've no doubt Obama will come out in favor of gay marriage in his second term, because he'll have nothing to lose politically by doing so.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 9:26pm

"I've no doubt Obama will come out in favor of gay marriage in his second term, because he'll have nothing to lose politically by doing so."

So, Obama is being dishonest with the American people for political expediency? Doesn't paint a very flattering picture of our president.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 2/19/12 at 10:29am

I'm a "bigot"? Prove it.
What "equal rights" are you being denied? And by whom?

[Eris0303]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 12:44am

What "equal rights" are you being denied? And by whom?

I think the "Filing Taxes in a Same Sex Marriage" thread is providing one example.


Filing Taxes in a Same Sex Marriage

Updated On: 2/20/12 at 12:44 AM

[mikey2573]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 10:44am

I am not quite sure how this violates a person's "civil rights".

[Eris0303]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 11:48am

I am only going to explain this once so listen closely.

Group A has the right to file as being "married".

Group B does not have the right to file as being "married".

Thus, the two groups do not have "equal rights"

From wikipedia:

Civil and political rights are a class of rights that protect individuals' freedom from unwarranted infringement by governments and private organizations, and ensure one's ability to participate in the civil and political life of the state without discrimination or repression.

Group B cannot "participate in the civil and political life of the state" to the extent that Group A can. Because they cannot file as being "married" they are unable to receive the same benefits that Group A can. This can most certainly be described as "government infringment" and a violation of their civil rights.

There are pros and cons to filing as "single" and "married" but denying people the option to choose makes Group B unequal in this case.

If you still don't understand how the two groups do not have the same rights I cannot explain it to you. And, as I stated previously - this is only one example. There are so many more.
Marriage and Filing Your Federal Tax Return

[mikey2573]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 12:57pm

So, filing a certain way on your taxes is a "civil right"?
Getting married is a "civil right"?
Getting certain tax breaks is a "civil right"?

I am divorced. I can't file as being "married". Is that a violation of my civil rights?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 1:05pm

You asked what equal rights were being denied, did you not? Eris answered you in some detail.

Are you actually confused or are you wanting to make some different point?

Also, I'm sure you're aware that you could marry someone of your chosing tomorrow, and that right is denied many of your fellow citizens. You can say that sounds just fine to you, but you can't call it equality.

[ljay889]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 1:14pm

Also, I'm sure you're aware that you could marry someone of your chosing tomorrow, and that right is denied many of your fellow citizens. You can say that sounds just fine to you, but you can't call it equality.

Exactly.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 1:41pm

So, filing a certain way on your taxes is a "civil right"?

Actually, yes. The Group A people have the CHOICE to file their taxes in a certain way. Group B DOES NOT. It's the lack of CHOICE that is a violation of rights.


I am divorced. I can't file as being "married". Is that a violation of my civil rights?

No, because you are not married. This is in reference to people who ARE married.

[Taryn]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 2:19pm

I am curious as to what Mikey thinks IS a civil right.

[Kad]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 2:23pm

Mikey's divorced? Shocker.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 2:53pm

I'm sure his wife divorced him to spend more time touring their daughters on the pageant circuit. Poor Mikey is just jealous that he won't be able to dress his little angels up in all the pink frocks he was denied as a repressed little boy.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 3:43pm

I am curious as to what Mikey thinks IS a civil right.

I actually could care less. If he's truly that ignorant, he's not ever going to get it. If he's not that ignorant, he's just being inflammatory for fun.

Either way, the only thing I can say to those who believe in inequality, a single official national language, a single official national religion, zero birth control, zero sex education, distortion of social issues and historical facts in school, zero immigration, levels of education, health care, and tax benefits based on personal wealth, and the elimination of welfare...why not move to Afghanistan? Sounds exactly like the type of environment you hysterically fear and falsely claim the liberals/Democrats (and especially Obama) and trying to force upon the country. If the Christian Conservatives gain any more control in the country, I'm definitely bailing. I thought this country had reached its lowest point in global embarrassment during the Bush years, but since the election of Obama, I'm pretty frightened by the unashamed racism, bigotry, ignorance and bloodlust by what used to be a radical fringe minority. Fox News and opportunistic Republican politicians/"journalists" have been pushing a fear-based agenda purposely avoiding facts and side-stepping responsibility to a point that makes me want to simply watch them all self-destruct from afar.

Someday, I hope "good Christian Americans" will read the Bible and the Constitution instead of relying on greedy idiots to tell them what to think. But I value my life enough not to hold my breath. I would just LOVE to see the looks on their faces when they realize they're not going to Heaven.

Updated On: 2/20/12 at 03:43 PM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 2/20/12 at 7:10pm

Mikey is clearly a troll and is best ignored. Why would anyone rail against gay marriage on a theater message board, of all places?

[violet72]

Posted: 2/21/12 at 11:38am

Mister Matt these "good christian americans" are the same ones who were against interracial marriages and the civil right movement in the 60's...

I am not suprised about this whole Christie veto thing. He is all about self promotion and running for president...why would he listen to the people of NJ who want this when he has the far right wing to worry about