Obama Defends DOMA- Page 4

[nealb1]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 12:10pm

TD, I never said that I had the answers, and I didn't ask everyone, like you said. It was referred to 1 person.

It wasn't until practically the end of his 8 years, that Bush even said that the country is in a recession. Obama said that within minutes of taking office. Look at what he's doing with the economy - stimulas package, bailing out the banks, automakers, creating jobs........admitting that there's a problem. This recession is effecting everyone, it doesn't discriminate.

He's damned if he does, and he's damned if he doesn't. He didn't create the problem. He's trying to fix it. It took a lot of years to get into this mess, and it's going to take a few more to get out of it.

Maybe Obama will overturn Don't Ask/Don't Tell, and maybe he won't. Just because it's not on the top of list of things to do, does not make him a bigot like the person who started this thread said he is.




Updated On: 5/21/09 at 12:10 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 12:58pm

Dunno if it's already been posted somewhere, but this documentary is coming to PBS June 16:

Ask Not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhCE6m6cly4

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 1:07pm

Neal. Read this very carefully.

Barack Obama does not support equal rights for gays. His support of discrimination against gay men and women is a matter of public record. This cannot be denied.

Barack Obama is a BIGOT. To pretend otherwise makes no sense whatsoever.

Updated On: 5/21/09 at 01:07 PM

[TulitaPepsi]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 1:45pm

What is doubly depressing about Obamas present silence on gay rights is that one assumes he endured a fair amount of discrimination himself.

His current stance against gay marriage (where God presumably isn't "in the mix") recalls the racist pre-1950s state laws which expressly forbade marriage between blacks and whites.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 1:49pm

YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO INVOKE COMPARISONS TO OTHER MINORITIES WHEN TALKING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE!

The tone of this post is You are all racist. Filtered by Tone-A-Tron^TM

[winston89]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 3:56pm

Roscoe

You have to understand that even though Obama does have the ability to say the word to demolish Don't Ask Don't Tell. He isn't going to. Not because he is a bigot but if your smart you would talk to some of you advisors before making a decision. It could be a situation of him wanting to but the military advisor saying that while it might be a good idea the timing isn't right. Keep in mind, there are people on the right who aren't too happy with Obama's smart move to close down gitmo. I would think that it would be smart of him to at least wait a while until he does something else that is smart like get rid of Don't ask Don't tell but will piss off extreme rights in the process.

I think that your convinced of one thing to be true and therefor you're reading in between the lines to have it be the way that you want it to be perceived.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 4:00pm

i'm convinced that post made my eyes hurt.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 4:21pm

Winston---

If Barack Obama supports discrimination against gays, for whatever reason whatsoever, he is a BIGOT. There is never, ever, a justification for bigotry. There are no two ways about it. Excuse it however you want, the fact cannot be denied -- Barack Obama continues to advocate discrimination against gays.

Updated On: 5/21/09 at 04:21 PM

[winston89]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 5:16pm

Yes, Roscoe, you keep saying that but you don't say how.

Might there be a chance that Obama does support equal rights for gays but has yet to act on it and do anything about it? Hell, before you get up in arms like you already are give the guy a year and then readdress the issue. He has only been in power for around 100 days and he can't do everything in that short amount of time. There is PLENTY of time for more things to happen from him. Good things come to those who wait.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 5:20pm

Then why is Obama just letting a linguist get fired because he has a boyfriend?


It's not equal rights at all.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 6:43pm

Winston, Barack Obama opposes same sex marriage, preferring civil unions which do not offer the same protections as marriage. This is a matter of public record. He has stated it repeatedly. This isn't a matter of merely waiting a year until he reveals that he didn't really mean it.

He has also not lifted a finger to stop the discharge of gays in uniform, which he could do by issuing an order. This too, has been reported more than once.

Yes, I tend to get up in arms when the President of the United States advocates active discrimination against the minority of which I am a member. I'm funny that way. Bigotry gets me down.

It looks like you and I disagree on this issue. I doubt that either of us will convince the other.

Updated On: 5/21/09 at 06:43 PM

[winston89]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 8:24pm

Roscoe, by starting your argument by saying off the bat that he is a bigot might tend to turn people away form wanting to hear that which you have to say. If you started out by saying something along the lines of, " I disagree with what Obama is doing with regards to Don't Ask, Don't tell and here is why." Then people might look at your side a little differently. But, by starting the conversation with saying that he is a bigot turns people off right off the bat without even trying.

If you look at what is going on right now with regards to what Obama is working with it wouldn't shock me at all to see that Don't ask isn't on the top of his list. He is in the process of getting a lot of flack from congress for closing down Gitmo. All the while he has to basically restructure the entire military system so that we can get out of Iraq while being able to protect this country in a terrorist age. As much as I would love to see Don't ask get overturned, I think it would be smart to wait for the laundry list of things that Obama is dealing with with the military to die down a bit first. Because, even though I would love to see it go away and become a thing of the past. In the grand scheme of things creating a situation where people can be in the army and say that they are gay and lesbian really has no effect on that which Obama has to focus on.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 9:08pm

roscoe, i want you to think long and hard about where you would be if mccain had won. that's right. in a concentration camp making walmart products. so i think you better thank your lucky stars that president obama saved you from that. why you gays are lucky to even be walking the streets and for that you can thank barack obama. so before you go getting all uppity about your "equality" maybe you better say thank you mr. president for what you have. god, the ingratitude of you gays is infuriating to this administration!

[singinsilly]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 9:45pm

"In a concentration camp making Walmart products.."

ROFL hahahaha

Anyways to address all issues mentioned that I bothered to read:

1: Support love.

2: Being prior military, there is a reason for the Don't ask Don't tell, and it's no longer what everyone says or believes it is. It's there to protect its military members who ARE in fact homosexual. Several of my closest friends in the military were openly gay, and chose to be so. It's a personal decision that does not need to be the topic of the entire post's discussion.

3: Having worked in/around/with/in the US FOR GITMO, it is crazy to shut it down. I don't agree with several of the practices performed there; however, people don't truly understand what GITMO's purpose was and WHY it was where it was. Whatever, I'm crossing my fingers.

::EDIT:: The only soldiers (and yes I know there are always exceptions) I know that were ever discharged from the military with a Chapter 15 (homosexual conduct) were discharged by their choice. It is also an honorable discharge.

Updated On: 5/21/09 at 09:45 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 9:55pm

see? dodt is there for you gays. gawd. what more can obama do for you?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 9:59pm

The only soldiers (and yes I know there are always exceptions) I know that were ever discharged from the military with a Chapter 15 (homosexual conduct) were discharged by their choice. It is also an honorable discharge.

I honor your service, but your ingnorance dishonors the men and women you blithely describe as "exceptions."

Educate yourself, soldier.
Servicemembers Legal Defense Network

[singinsilly]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 10:13pm

My ignorance? Ok sweetie. There ARE exceptions, I was talking about those I PERSONALLY know or have witnessed. There are screwed up ignorant people out there, I know. There are also several gays who support don't ask don't tell.

So before you step up on your soapbox understand EVERYONES opinion, not just the one you support.

YOUR ignorance amazes me.


::EDIT:: I worked as the personal administrative assistant for several posts at once, seeing every possible case for misconduct and discharge. I also interviewed several of those soldiers myself, getting both stories.

Updated On: 5/21/09 at 10:13 PM

[winston89]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 10:27pm

singinsilly,

I don't think that people didn't know the reason why Gitmo was created. I think that the Bush presidency brought forward all the reasons why it was bad and why it shouldn't have been around. I think that the reason why there wasn't much of an uproar prior to the Iraq war, was because people knew what it was and where it was. They were just blindsided to what exactly was going on there. When they found out, they rightly so caused an uproar that got the place shut down. Rightly so if I may say so myself.

[singinsilly]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 10:30pm

There is a difference between taking a new direction and shutting down. There was some horrible things done in GITMO, I and no one with half a brain is denying that. What I AM saying is that to shut it down and either release or send to stateside prisons the inmates that are confined there is not the greatest idea.

Some reasons are common sense, some are because I have insight that I cannot share. Just stating my opinion :)

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/21/09 at 11:44pm

Defend this, singingsilly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NZDRjEKwtQ

And, yes, you need to educate yourself.

[singinsilly]

Posted: 5/22/09 at 12:02am

Hence the 'exceptions' part to my speech.

I'm not defending everything, I'm merely offering a different 'behind the scenes' viewpoint.

I'm sorry, I know I've done my research. I've actually seen that clip several times, and heard several other similar stories. I also know the other stories, the good ones. The stories about people who were treated fairly and homosexual couples that are full proponents for the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy. Apparently you refuse to take the time to research BOTH sides of your debate.

[winston89]

Posted: 5/22/09 at 1:49am

But there is no good to come of all this. Yes, there are a few situations where nothing happened in terms of discharging someone for coming out of the closet. A superior decided to not take action when they should have or something along those lines. It seems to me that the only thing that people who are gay might view as a positive to Don't ask is that they aren't forced to come out and they can stay in the closet if they want to. If they repeal it, there is nothing that says that they have to come out. They can still be in the closet and serve if that is what they want. But, the majority shouldn't be forced to give up their ability and their desire to fight just because they came out.

There is nothing good that can come out of keeping DADT in place.

And, I don't buy the argument that the military's numbers in terms of membership are fine. Hell, it was only a couple of years ago that they needed people to serve and they were kind of desperate to find people and fast. Therefor, they resorted to using convicted felons, people with too low an IQ to serve etc. But, all the while there were tons of homosexual people ready to serve their country but got passed over just because they were gay.

It doesn't matter that they were discharged and it doesn't matter what kind of discharge it was. By giving them an honorable discharge it is the army's way of saying that we are sorry for doing this to you but that is what you get for being gay and coming out.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/22/09 at 10:23am

Winston, agreed that DADT isn't necessarily at the top of Obama's to-do list. That's pretty damned obvious. What you continue to avoid noticing is his oft-stated stance against same-sex marriage, and the explicit bigotry of such a position. There can be no two ways about it -- once again, Barack Obama explicity supports discrimination against gays. Pretending that Obama is just taking a position that he doesn't really believe in on this matter is like saying that Dick Cheney doesn't really support torture deep in his heart, all evidence to the contrary.

Papa, if McCain had won, I'd be in a concentration camp, along with a lot of others. And Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton and her Bubba wouldn't have had a problem with it.

Updated On: 5/22/09 at 10:23 AM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/22/09 at 10:36am

roscoe that's a damnable lie! dick cheney has no heart and you know it.

[madbrian]

Posted: 5/22/09 at 10:44am

Is that why he talks out of the side of his mouth, like the Tin Man before Dorothy oiled him?