PROP 8 OVERTURNED- Page 3

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:26pm

Conservative legal scholars are doubting that the Supreme Court will even hear the case.

It was so poorly argued in this trial that they're thinking the Prop 8 supporters will lose any appeal and the Supreme Court will simply let the two previous rulings stand.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:29pm

But that in itself wouldn't affect all 50 states would it?

I'm also curious if more than California will be affected by the next level as that court covers more states than just CA.

[Yawper]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:37pm

Legal marriage has always been a states' rights issue. I can't see the US Supreme Court getting involved now.

[madbrian]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:44pm

"Legal marriage has always been a states' rights issue. I can't see the US Supreme Court getting involved now."

I completely disagree. It took the SCOTUS to legalize interracial marriage across the country, and this issue has always been destined for them.

[Yawper]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:52pm

A 2006 NY same sex marriage argument built upon on the SCOTUS interracial marriage arguments didn't hold up.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:58pm

madbrian is correct. This will be a SCOTUS decision to reach all 50 states.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:03pm

NY also had a 2009 same-sex marriage vote that unfortunately failed because **some** Senators felt pressured when they had to do it in alphabetical order. In short: My state really should not represent any side of the argument on marriage equality.

I'm with madbrian as well. There are plenty of things on the federal level that involve who you are married to and certain benefits provided for spouses.
Updated On: 8/4/10 at 11:03 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:04pm

That case doesn't, matter, Yawper. The judge's ruling was so bizarre that it could never be used as a precedent.

The dissenting judge on the panel called the ruling an "unfortunate misstep."

The difference in this case is that Boies and Olsen have constructed arguments that are air-tight. The two of them have spent their careers learning how to win at the Supreme Court level and the are both at the top of their games here, and they haven't made a wrong move or hit a false note yet.

Gay marriage on a national level became a little more inevitable on August 4, 2010.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:11pm

I feel like it is on its way to the Supreme Court now, and I DO hope they take the case, because of the (I would hope) obvious effect it will on DOMA.

PS - Speaking of congratulating California on Facebook, I found this gem in a friend's feed -

#
Wrong right or indifferent, we need to find a way where voters pass bills that don't get constantly sued. Not saying I agree either way, just tired of the voting process being made a fool of.

Followed by someone else saying -
#
Interesting - I'm tired of the law being made a fool of by the voting process.

Updated On: 8/4/10 at 11:11 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:29pm

Unlike the president, Cheyenne Jackson issued his statement in the first person:

"Giant step forward. California dreaming, indeed. Makes me feel prouder than ever to be a strong gay man. Now come on, home state of New York... We all know that you're the 'concrete jungle where dreams r made of,' so make mine come true and take the necessary steps to allow me to make it legal with my man. Step up, we believe in you."

[madbrian]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:33pm

I will make an effort to read the decision in its entirety, but all accounts indicate that it is a very forceful, well-written decision. Part of the appeals process is that issues of law are addressed, but not issues of fact. Judge Walker made a point of listing EIGHTY points of fact, which will almost certainly be accepted as fact as the case progresses.

Rachel Maddow has Olson & Boies on tonight. I HIGHLY recommend recording this episode, which will be repeated during the night.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:36pm

This is positively THE BEST NEWS I've had all day!

BRING IT ON SUPREME COURT! BRING.IT.ON!!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:41pm

Ricky Martin's personal statement, via Twitter, is clearly in the first person:

YEAHHHHH!!!!! #PROP8UNCONSTITUTIONAL MOVING FORWARD!!!!!!!!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:46pm

He's an even MORE fortunate homosexual!

I've read about 40 pages of it so far, and to my non-legal mind, it's boggling how little of a case the defense seemed to make.

"Moral disapproval alone is an improper basis on which to deny rights to gay men and lesbians" is my favorite line so far.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:01am

More coverage of first-person reactions!
Reactions to Prop 8

[NYadgal]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:03am

Singer Cyndi Lauper: “Gay and lesbian couples have long struggled for acceptance and the ability to marry the person they love and want to build a family with. Today’s landmark ruling declaring Proposition 8 unconstitutional is a testament to the fundamentals on which this great country was built and validates that the discrimination gay couples face must come to an end. We as a society should be embracing these couples and helping them make the lifelong commitment to each other that many of us straight people take for granted each and every day. This decision is a major step in the right direction towards equality.”

[NYadgal]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:05am

Ellen DeGeneres, who married Portia de Rossi during the window of time in 2008 before Prop. 8 was passed by voters, issued this statement: “When Prop 8 was passed two years ago, I said, “One day we will look back and realize how wrong this is.” Now, we’ve made a huge step forward. In today’s ruling, the court stated that Prop 8 “fails to advance any rational basis” for denying the right to marry, and the court is right. We’re all equal, and we should all have equal rights. I’m so grateful for today’s decision.”

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:07am

This case could have been summarized into a paragraph. LOL!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:43am

From what I have read so far, Walker did an amazing job of documenting the factual findings, which means it will be difficult if not impossible to overturn on an error on the findings of fact.

The only issue which could be the basis for it being overturned is whether the due process and equal protection clause of the United States applies to right to marry someone of the same sex regardless of what state law says. The arguments that the Yes on 8 folks are making are similar to those made during the civil rights struggles in the 1950's and 1960's.

Knowing Kagan clerked for Marshall, she will obviously see the parallels, and if I were betting, I would bet that the ruling would be sustained by the Supremes.

Days like today make me proud to be part of the legal system.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 2:00am

NOM is already fighting back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MADoN4YvrVE

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 2:05am

Summary "we have the civil rights to oppress a minority because we are the majority." Send us money so we can keep the strange kids from playing in our reindeer games.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 7:15am

Ted Olson, speaking in San Francisco, after the decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjv_AMI8H0M

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 7:15am

Double post

Updated On: 8/5/10 at 07:15 AM

[Roscoe]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 9:01am

"The President has spoken out in opposition to Proposition 8 because it is divisive and discriminatory. He will continue to promote equality for LGBT Americans."

Talk about damning with faint praise.

And again, Our Fierce Advocate doesn't promote equality for LGBT Americans, as long as he continues to oppose marriage equality, and as long as his administration continues to vigorously defend DOMA in court.

And folks are noticing:




Towleroad: Is Obama A Believer In Equality Or Not?

[madbrian]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 9:17am

Below is a link to the decision. It's lengthy, but well worth it. Also, the legal expert on Rachel Maddow's show commented that the decision contains several references and quotes from decisions written by Justice Kennedy, who is expected to be the swing vote when this gets to the SCOTUS.

Here is Judge Walker's conclusion:

"Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in
singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional." - Judge Vaughn Walker


Judge Vaughn Walker

Walker