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Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays? — Page 8

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#176

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

At a certain point, does "willful denial" become dogma, or, at least, accepted canon?

This article, but a Reuters religion reporter, says that the now-famous five words--"Who am I to judge?"--are not part of a new Vatican policy but a personal policy by this particular pope to downplay the harsh rhetoruc on "pelvic and personal issues" and speak to alienated Catholics in a way that is "approachable, kind, understanding and patient."

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3696143?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

The last word at the end of the article is given to an unnamed cardinal, who says that the pope "plays for the same team but kicks the ball in an entirely new direction."

===

"'Who am I to judge' may end up being the most-quoted five words spoken by a modern pope," said John Thavis, author of the best-selling book The Vatican Diaries and who covered the Vatican for 30 years for the U.S.-based Catholic News Service.

"Pope Francis has realized the simple truth, that when the Church preaches on pelvic and political issues like birth control, abortion and same-sex marriage, many people stop listening. So instead of repeating the rules and revving up the 'culture of death' rhetoric, he's focusing on another essential side of Christianity, mercy and compassion. And of course, that's much more inviting," Thavis said.

Updated On: 8/4/13 at 05:38 AM

#177

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Again, I have no investment in this or any other pope. But if this was the first time any pope mentioned the word "gay"--and the Reuters article points out that he used the word 5 times--then it has to be at least as significant as when Ronald Reagan first mentioned "AIDS" in September 1985.
#178

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Again, I have no affection or disaffection for this Pope, although I didn't think much of the last one, but this NY Times article today makes it seem like he just took things a giant step further.

===

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,” he told Father Spadaro. “I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person.”
NY Times: Pope Bluntly Faults Church’s Focus on Gays and Abortion
#179

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,” he told Father Spadaro. “I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person.”

Way to dodge the question, Pope Francis. Yes or no -- do you approve of homosexuality? Will you guide the church to a more open acceptance of gay Catholics?

The hot air is admittedly freshly scented, and all that. We'll see.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#180

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Pope Frank and I share a love for La Strada.

Who knew he was a Fellini fan.


....but the world goes 'round
#182

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

The Pope likes Fellini's LA STRADA, and why not, a sweet little fable of great warmth and beauty -- but how is he on the much more savage Ecclesiastical Fashion Show in ROMA?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#184

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Might as well.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#186

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Pope Francis is the Vatican version of Meghan McCain.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#188

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

They're both spouting the same "we don't hate gays as much as everything we've ever done would indicate" schtick. And folks are lapping it up.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#189

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Well...I gave up my Catholicism a loooong time ago in favor of the only thing that makes sense to me...atheism. Some of that probably came about because of the hostility towards LGBT folks that is endemic in the church. I've grown up nearly my entire life with two popes...John Paul II and Benedict. Their reactionary, vicious gay-hatred has been the backdrop of all of my experience with the church. So...to be able to witness a pontiff who is trying to present a different way forward as a church, one that does not involve the dehumanizing language of the last two, is really quite something.

Yes. I know it's not enough. And it is no longer my church. But it's a shocking change.
#190

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

It'll be an even more shocking change when he announces that henceforth all churches and dioceses around the world will co-operate with local police authorities when dealing with pedophile priests and child sexual abuse.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#192

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?

I'm pretty sure his god does reject the gay person, if the gay person doesn't reject their own gayness.
#193

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

And just think, barely three years ago he called same-sex marriage "gravely harm[s] the family" and that "it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is not a mere legislative project (this is a mere instrument), but rather a "move" of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God."


May the Holy Family join us "in God's war"
#194

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Politics (Santa Evita teaches us) is the Art of the Possible, but Religion is the Art of the Improbable.
#195

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Now that the odious HRC has made a graphic with their stupid equal sign and this message to the Pope: "Thank you! -- LG blah blah people everywhere," I am completely over it. Is there nothing they won't co-opt?
Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none
#197

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

I'm saving my thank yous for when he doesn't say something that isn't a vague platitude. I'm happy that other people get something out of it, I guess.
#198

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Too late Phyl! Your unelected spokespeople at HRC have already thanked him for you. To thank *them* please make a big donation so they can throw fancy parties you can buy expensive tickets to.
Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none
#200

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

The Pope seems to be taking the same path as jfk and lbj did with blacks when they had all those southern democrats firehosing blacks and sending cops to prevent them from going to school. Gradual escalation.
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