Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays? — Page 9

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#201

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 7:52am

“I'm happy that other people get something out of it, I guess.”

I wish I could agree with that, Phyl, but in all honesty, it just makes me angrier. When gay friends post praises of the Pope on Facebook, it takes a great deal of willpower to not point out that these statements have zero practical value and that nothing about the fundamental intolerance of the organization has changed.

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#202

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 8:50am

"I'm saving my thank yous for when he doesn't say something that isn't a vague platitude. I'm happy that other people get something out of it, I guess."

This, except for being happy that people get something out of it -- I'm finding it sad that folks are so desperate for good news that they'll fasten onto even this most vague of all platitudes as if it really meant anything at all.

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/

#203

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 9:06am

I Pope Francis should go to Stonewall.

'Take me out tonight where's there's music and there's people and they're young and alive.'

#204

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 10:02am

If I had to choose if I'd rather the pope (or anyone, for that matter) said nasty things or neutral things, I'd chose neutral things. But I don't see answering a rhertorical question with another rhetorical question as a big pro-gay statement.

And this part--“I see the church as a field hospital after battle,” Francis said. “It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars. You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else.”--sounds to me like "Let's get them back in the church and then we can make them un-gay."

But again, I prefer his current statements over past ones (both his own and those of other popes), and I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong.

#205

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 10:46am

Well, it's a darn good thing it's a totally hypothetical choice, then!

CHURCH DOOR TOUCAN GAY MARKETING PUPPIES MUSICAL THEATER STAPLES PERIOD OIL BITCHY SNARK HOLES

#206

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 10:51am

Michelangelo Signorile, who famously confronted then-Cardinal Ratzinger during the AIDS crisis, had this to say about the effect of the pope's words on church officials who are invested in the anti-gay rhetoric:

And in saying "I have never been a right-winger" in the same interview in which he's criticizing the church for being too "obsessed" with gay marriage and abortion, Francis is hitting at those Catholic leaders who use gay rights and abortion to wield political power, putting them on notice. Again, his comments don't change the church's doctrine, but they do a lot to change its focus. That can only be seen as a huge shift.

Huff Post: Pope Francis Comes Out of the Closet: 'I Have Never Been a Right-Winger'

#207

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 10:52am

If you've never read about it, here is Signorile's account of his confrontation with Ratzinger.

Huff Post: The Time I Called Pope Benedict 'the Devil' to His Face

#208

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 10:54am

I want him to wash Sister Jeaninine Gramick's feet!

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#209

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 12:29pm

'And this part--“I see the church as a field hospital after battle,” Francis said. “It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars. You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else.”--sounds to me like "Let's get them back in the church and then we can make them un-gay."'

But, and I haven't read the entire interview yet, I don't believe this was expressly about gay people. It's a fundamental truth about the Church. It exists to comfort the suffering and the sinners, which is the inherent state of man. It is supposed to be a place of grace in which to one can find comfort in the God they choose to follow. I'm under no illusion that any doctrine on homosexuality, abortion or contraception is going to change in any way. But a church that pulls its focus away from the culture wars and instead concentrates on the issues of poverty, war, torture and the like is a positive step.

I'm not a believer. I won't be going back to the Church under any circumstance because I believe God does not exist. But there is something heartening about a Church that has fetishized the culture wars turning its back on that and turning itself towards what one might term more Christ-like causes.

#210

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 12:32pm

Robbie, I agree with you completely.

And you're right: the way the article is quoted it's kind of impossible to know what refers to what. But I stand by main point, which is that his comments are more neutral than pro-anything.

#211

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 12:41pm

why is it so damned important to get the pope's approval?

i don't need his stamp of approval in regards to my life, sexual orientation, etc.

i could care less.

#212

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 12:46pm

Well...it's a 12,000 word article. One that I'll get to at some point (hopefully today). And I do agree with the fact that it's neutral. But I also think there's something brilliant about his response:

'Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?'

Instead of answering the question, which was a provocation (not that I have a problem with that!), he turns it around to make the person try to think differently about God. About how God views men and women. And in that question, it's a challenge to the listener to view others the way God views us. It's clear that Francis believes that God views the individual from a loving place, and not from a place of condemnation. In his earlier quote about atheists, he insists that we must all do good in the world and that is where we will meet. That is where our common humanity will find us. It's incredibly pragmatic...but also quite extraordinary. There is room for doubt. There is room for the possibility of grace, even if one doesn't believe. I, a gay atheist, know that I've done good in this world. I know that I have experienced moments of absolute, transcendent grace. I need no one's approval. But if the pope wishes to recognize that and encourage us all to continue along the path of doing good, then I think that's something that is deeply beautiful.

ETA: As I was writing this, I hadn't seen Carlos' response, so please don't think my approval comment was a challenge to you. We just were kind of on the same page.

Updated On: 9/20/13 at 12:46 PM

#213

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 1:15pm

I grew up Catholic and even was very active through most of college. I've slowly moved further and further away from the church since that time. As I have an extremely fervent mother who hangs on every word the church says, I still pay attention to what is going on in the church to find opportunities to help guide her views to something based in reality.

The reality is the church's doctrine won't change. Francis can say some nice things but the church moves extremely slow. Even Ratzinger refuses to admit the church was wrong in imprisoning Galileo for the rest of his life. *bangs head against wall* The only chance for future change is if Francis lasts long enough to appoint a majority of cardinals more interested in pastoral care than using rhetoric against abortion, contraception, and homosexuality as stepping stones to power. It will be hundreds of years before the church will approach the issue rationally. I will not be holding my breath.

My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...

Updated On: 9/20/13 at 01:15 PM

#214

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 3:27pm

lets remember, it took Obama 5 years to evolve to gay marriage,
this pope is evolving in just 5 months! in 5 years, he might be
officiating them in St Peters Basilica!

FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................

#215

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 3:33pm

So true, gunn

#216

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 4:44pm

For those of you who bought the crap about what a great guy the pope is ---
Francis Denounces Abortion -- Evidence of Throw Away Culture

#217

Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?

Posted: 9/20/13 at 5:06pm

Huffpost is as liberal and anti religion as it gets. Its like quoting Fox on obamacare.

Updated On: 9/20/13 at 05:06 PM

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