Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#1
Posted: 7/29/13 at 9:21am
Didn't see that coming.
Francis
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#2
Posted: 7/29/13 at 9:40am
It's remarkable to hear a pope, especially a new pope, say those words. I do wonder if part of the reason is because when the question was posed to him, it was said that the clergyman did/does not act on his homosexuality. It may not make a difference, though, to Pope Francis, but I know "Christians" who are "accepting" of gay Christians as long as they do not act on their feelings.
Slightly off-topic, but this reminds me of Desmond Tutu's words recently. Tutu has been known to speak on the acceptance of gays into Christianity, but this statement is still powerful.
Tutu: 'I'd pick hell over an anti-gay heaven'
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#2
Posted: 7/29/13 at 9:45amThe official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/15/13
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#3
Posted: 7/29/13 at 9:57amThis is exactly what i predicted he would do back when he was made Pope and said not to prejudge the man. the history of the mans life made this easy to predict it would happen
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#4
Posted: 7/29/13 at 9:59am
I'm not sure I'm getting what's so new about this other than his saying it's okay for gay priests to remain in service, which the previous pope had spoken out against.
He's saying, "...gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten." This doesn't sound new to me. Same as any sin. Ask for forgiveness, you're forgiven and your sins are forgotten. My problem is they still consider it a sin that I'd need to ask to be forgiven for in the first place. My husband and my love is not a sin.
Granted, this pope seems a lot "friendlier" and easy going than many previous popes. But I've met a lot of friendly people in my life that still thought I was going to hell.
ETA: it's always been church policy that only god can judge. So this isn't new to me either.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#5
Posted: 7/29/13 at 10:31am
I'm so tired of headlines (not the fault of the OP) misrepresenting what people actually say.
"Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?" the pontiff said, speaking in Italian. "You can't marginalize these people."
That's not quite the same as "Who am I to judge gays?" Not by a long shot.
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/15/13
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#6
Posted: 7/29/13 at 10:36amas i am often told, a journey begins with one step
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/24/09
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#7
Posted: 7/29/13 at 10:38am
What bothers me is that he is condemning gays to a loveless life essentially-to take up the 'priestly, chaste lifestyle' which should not be forced on anyone (my own feelings on the Roman Catholic Church aside). I think the perversions of the clergy are far more egregious than the loving gay couples I know.
And I'd just like to know who the Pope believes made gay people?(I guess the way I see it is that God made everyone-and doesn't make mistakes, so essentially condemning gay people as 'evil' and their lifestyle as 'wrong' is passing judgment-and I don't believe anyone is infallible enough to do that. He doesn't want to marginalize gays-particularly men-he just wants them to be priests. Let's face it.)
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#9
Posted: 7/29/13 at 10:40amI have no interest in steps the church takes every thousand years or so. At this point, the only step I want them to take is out-of-my-way. Cause I only have this one life. And I can't wait for them to be okay with me.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#10
Posted: 7/29/13 at 10:42am
This isn't even a step. It's a reiteration, which is more or less standing in place. And where they are standing in place isn't anywhere near the front anyway.
Updated On: 7/29/13 at 10:42 AM
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#11
Posted: 7/29/13 at 10:59am
I agree that this barely qualifies as a step. It seems to be more of a "Piss on your leg, and tell you it's raining" than progress.
Artscallion is right. The best thing the church could do is just back off and be silent about the issue. Or if it just has to speak on an issue, then speak, but do not persecute or subject federal/state rights to a religious opinion.
In this country, there are Christian gay citizens and non-Christian gay citizens, and the church makes no differentiation and does not seem to care, apart from select churches (Episcopals, for one). I am a Christian myself, and I'll never understand the need of many Christians to enforce Christian law on non-believers. Even Jesus did not do that.
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#11
Posted: 7/29/13 at 11:38amThe Catholic Church can accept as many gays as they like, it will still be a corrupt entity.
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/15/13
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#12
Posted: 7/29/13 at 11:41amunftly there is some corruption just as there is in congress, the nypd etc
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#14
Posted: 7/29/13 at 12:02pm
"The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are."
This is what has always baffled me about the church's position towards the issue. If God created you that way, would't ignoring or hiding the orientation that he gave you be considered acting against his will, and therefore a sin?
I like the new Pope, aside from the fact that he's Latino, he seems friendly and accessible, but unless he has a major epiphany or God himself visits him during his papacy, he will not contribute to the fight towards equality. He already strongly opposed to marriage equality in Argentina.
Updated On: 7/29/13 at 12:02 PM
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#15
Posted: 7/29/13 at 12:04pm
If God created you that way
I think you're incorrectly inferring that the Catholic church thinks that.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#16
Posted: 7/29/13 at 12:19pmNo, God created you that way to test you.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#17
Posted: 7/29/13 at 12:28pm
Wyn, that's my personal interpretation, but you're right it did seem like I was inferring.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#18
Posted: 7/29/13 at 1:48pmMy post was seriously deleted?
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#19
Posted: 7/29/13 at 1:51pmDid you insult suestorm or Orfeh?
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#20
Posted: 7/29/13 at 1:53pmWow, posts really do go missing in threads where suestorm is spewing nonsense.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#21
Posted: 7/29/13 at 1:55pmMaybe they're the same......Sorfeh? Orfstorm?
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#23
Posted: 7/29/13 at 1:57pmI think Orfstorm was a character in The Handmaid's Tale.
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#26
Posted: 7/29/13 at 2:18pm
Andrew Sullivan (who has a vested interest in the matter) argues that the pope's words were enormously significant.
THE DISH: Francis’ Sunlight
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gays?#27
Posted: 7/29/13 at 2:18pmOrfstorm sounds like it would be an awesome Windows screensaver!
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