Possibility of Attacks in the USA- Page 3

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 1:58pm

>>"...people are pretty adept now at looking out for suspicious things." Really? And what exactly is suspicious? A 20 year old with a packback boarding a bus? We in this country are still conditioned to focus on the unattended bags, packages, vehicles and not on the young suicide bombers.

You know what, honey, whether we are or we aren't adept, terrorism is going to happen. I just hope that most people keep their eyes peeled for anything that might look suspicious or odd that could be related to terrorism.

>>"Also, if the government is doing it's job then there should be even less of a chance. If they're not, then that's on them."

>Honey, if they're not doing their job then accountabilty may be on them, but the ramifications and tragedy fall on all of us. And I'm reminded that the government is only as successful as the eyes and ears and input from its citizens. I know I'm not phrasing things well...but we all play a part in this.

We do, but our borders are not being protected properly, nuclear power plants are not being protected as well as they should be, and a lot of airport security doesn't even make sense. Is it wrong for me to blame the government for those things? I'm not saying everything is their fault. It's their job to protect us on a large scale and the job of citizens to help protect things on a smaller scale.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:29pm

RobbO, I was making points. I understand your need to come at me, it's just so wrong-headed this time. Save your ammo for when it's appropriate and may actually land with anything other than a thud.

Back to the thread. It's interesting to me what it is we tell ourselves to get through the day. Mr.Midwest did it. Etoile, however, pointed out that the illusion of safety is just that, an illusion. I was anxious getting on the subway today. I used the typical rationalizations to convince myself that I was safe. The rationalizations may or may not have been accurate, but it's kind of what thinking people have to do to get through a day rather than be frozen by the possibility of the countless things that could go very very wrong.

[RobbO]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:31pm

oh, okay, namo but only because you said so.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:36pm

What are you, RobbO, in junior high? You're beginning to make Liam and AbbaRabbit look like valedictorians.

"Oh yeah? Whatever you say! Please note my sarcasm. Because I am being sarcastic."

Why don't you PM me RobbO, so that this thread can stay on topic and you can throw your little rubber cupped darts in my general vicinity?

[RobbO]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:37pm

oh okay. but only because you said so, namo.

[Mythus]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:37pm

You know, it would be so easy just to say "I don't agree with you" or "I think you're a hypocrite". And then the other person could say "Okay" and leave it at that.

On topic, I don't think the possibility of an attack here is any higher than it was before. Wouldn't it be the other way round - that 9/11 hightened the possibility of London (or anywhere else) getting attacked?

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:41pm

I never said that I pretended I thought I was safe. I just don't choose to focus on the possibility of something going wrong all the time since it always can. I don't have an illusion of safety.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:42pm

Or at the very least BE FUNNY when taking a swipe. That's why RobbO is such an utter disappointment.

Mr.M, the part about you saying "If the government is doing its job" was a pretty big leap of faith!

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:45pm

I said that if the government is doing it's job there should be less of a chance of an attack. What's wrong with that?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 4:02pm

Nothing on the face of it. But, of course, at the same time the government says it's doing its job we know how governments are.

With all the stringent airline measures in place in the post-911 world, that drunk guy still managed to steal an airplane and fly in NYC air space for HOURS the other week.

So the "if" is a pretty big leap!

[etoile]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 4:58pm

I must be missing whatever point you're attempting to make. I don't think we are adept at looking for things suspicious. We leave our cars parked illegally outside of federal facilities, and then bitch and moan when it's tagged and towed. We leave our belongings unattended at airports because they're too ackward to lug over to the Coffee Beanery, then act surprised when they're stolen or removed by enforcement.

We as a culture are not conditioned to think like terrorist. I think many, especially those living outside of large cities, still don't believe that it can happen to them. We don't suspect that the woman pushing a baby's stroller at the Mall of America may have it laden with explosives. We don't think of our young men sacrificing themselves blown up in a car for a cause alongside a roadway. (Unless they're wearing a military uniform.) We don't turn a suspicious eye towards people. We don't want to be viewed as *gasp* profiling because it's not the American way. It's because of this mindset that we can be targeted. Because we don't want to offend by being suspicious. We allow ourselves to be vulnerable, and that will be seized upon. Should we change? I don't know. That's a personal decision each must make. It can happen here again, it will happen here again, and like those in the UK, who have had a long history with may types of terrorism and are still targeted, we too will survive and go on.

If the government is doing their job...gee...in an ideal world. But complacency in some, and burnout in others, is all part of the human condition, and is damn hard to root out of those protected government jobs.

And there is so much that our government is not responsible to cover. And many resent the implications that they should intrude and have a say over many private facilities. Our government is not responsible for private nuclear facilities, chemical plants, private schools, churches and hospitals. Protection at these facilities can be spotty at best. I know I don't have the answers, but in the event of a disaster, the only one to blame is the one responsible for the incident.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:10pm

Great post.

[KelRel]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:13pm

I think that it is human nature to centralize events to try to figure out what effect that it will have upon our lives. An attack in London makes everyone a little more on edge and a little nervous because there is always that "what if we're next?" mentality. I argee with Millie's sentiments about trying to make the world a better place. She is in the position to possibly make a change because she works in a government job with implied access to influential people. If she can help make policies and changes which make this world a better place I have a lot of respect for her for even trying, more so if she succeeds.
I think that it is funny how people will get all up in arms and say how this makes them more dedicated to fighting terrorism. We as individuals are not going to be able to do much unless we are in a position such as Millie is or if we join the military, should that person feel that that is the right path to take. I don't want this to turn into a thread on the war in Iraq. I just don't quite understand people's knee jerk reaction to these things.
I feel very sorry for everyone involved or affected by these attacks, and I will be praying for the families and friends of those who were hurt or killed. I just wish that these things did not happen, but sadly they are a fact of life. Its so crazy to think of how the world was pre 9/11 and compare it to the way things are now.
Right now I think that we need to focus on the horrible loss that took place in London, and keep our eyes open here in the US, but try not to make this tragedy about us.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:20pm

Exactly KelRel.

[KelRel]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:24pm

Namo said something nice? That's it we don't need to worry about terroist attacks, the world will be coming to an end in approx 30 seconds! (just kidding dear- I think you get a bad rap sometimes for being a hard Ass, when you are trying to make a point or get some clarification on an issue.)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:36pm

Hey, call me anything, as long as you put me in your sig file.

(But thanks for the parenthetical point, I think you're right!)

Updated On: 7/7/05 at 05:36 PM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:57pm

I'm sorry, but Namo's bigger point here has been misconstrued, repeatedly. He's just keeping us honest. The whole subject reminded me of the last line of the David Denby review of WAR OF THE WORLDS:

"...It's as if the aliens landed and everyone died so that Tom Cruise could grow up one more time..."

A defining trait in the American character is too often ignored: narcissism.

Updated On: 7/7/05 at 05:57 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 5:59pm

Thank you Auggie. What matters to me is that people I respect get what I was trying to say (sorry RobbO, not included!). And thank David Denby too!

[gymman]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:01pm

Auggie--You are f.....brilliant! That's exactly Nemo's point, and what bothers me so much about American popular culture. It's also why we know more about Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise than we do about deaths in Iraq, and why Bush is president.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:06pm

And a less glib, but very powerful response has been recorded by William Rivers Pitt:

"...My first response was horror, and my second was a sense that the British people have the strength to endure this. My third response was to marvel at the news coverage. Four bombings, more than thirty dead, hundreds more wounded? In London, it is a terrifying, enraging, appalling act of despicable violence that must be immediately avenged.

In Iraq, they call events like this "Tuesday."

Tens of thousands of people have been killed and wounded in Iraq by way of deadly bombings that have been taking place every single day. These Iraqi people are no different from the Londoners who perished today. Their skin is darker perhaps, and they pray to a different God, but they have families and children and dreams and they die just as horribly as their British counterparts. Yet they earn perhaps a few sentences on the back page of the paper, and virtually no comment from the members of the international community which ginned up the invasion of Iraq in the first place."

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:08pm

That is an excellent quote, Auggie. Do you have a link or source? I'd like to read Pitt's thoughts in its entirety.

[gymman]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:08pm

As of today, over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed...
Updated On: 7/7/05 at 06:08 PM

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:08pm

>"I must be missing whatever point you're attempting to make. I don't think we are adept at looking for things suspicious. We leave our cars parked illegally outside of federal facilities, and then bitch and moan when it's tagged and towed. We leave our belongings unattended at airports because they're too ackward to lug over to the Coffee Beanery, then act surprised when they're stolen or removed by enforcement"

I think perhaps that's true of some people, but America is a huge country. Everyone is different.

I think we're certainly more suspicious and watchful than we were before 9/11.

I wasn't trying to make any particular big point, just expressing my thoughts.


"We as a culture are not conditioned to think like terrorist. I think many, especially those living outside of large cities, still don't believe that it can happen to them. We don't suspect that the woman pushing a baby's stroller at the Mall of America may have it laden with explosives. We don't think of our young men sacrificing themselves blown up in a car for a cause alongside a roadway. (Unless they're wearing a military uniform.) We don't turn a suspicious eye towards people. We don't want to be viewed as *gasp* profiling because it's not the American way. It's because of this mindset that we can be targeted. Because we don't want to offend by being suspicious. We allow ourselves to be vulnerable, and that will be seized upon. Should we change? I don't know. That's a personal decision each must make. It can happen here again, it will happen here again, and like those in the UK, who have had a long history with may types of terrorism and are still targeted, we too will survive and go on"

I agree that we will survive and go on. I just think that terrorist attacks are inevitable and sometimes impossible to stop, so I choose not to worry about it all the time.

There are so many different types of terrorists. If we're talking about suicide bombers, anyone can run in somewhere like a cafe after exciting their car with bombs strapped to them and blow people up. It's pretty hard to prevent.

I think that racial profiling is necessary to a degree, but sometimes it leads us to focus on the wrong people while other people are overlooked (Also, who knows when the next Timothy McVeigh will strike?)

I also feel that most Middle Eastern people in America probably know that they are going to be profiled and realize that. That may prevent some terrorists from trying to perpetuate an attack, but I feel that others will go ahead and find a way to attack any way they can. I feel that we have to try to have more security in places with large amounts of people in general.

I guess I don't really get why you felt you needed to single out my comments. If you're trying to make a point I don't feel it's very clear either.


>"If the government is doing their job...gee...in an ideal world. But complacency in some, and burnout in others, is all part of the human condition, and is damn hard to root out of those protected government jobs."

Right, I'm not saying I think the government is doing a perfect job or that they're doing a horrible job. However, there is more they could be doing.

>"And there is so much that our government is not responsible to cover. And many resent the implications that they should intrude and have a say over many private facilities. Our government is not responsible for private nuclear facilities, chemical plants, private schools, churches and hospitals. Protection at these facilities can be spotty at best. I know I don't have the answers, but in the event of a disaster, the only one to blame is the one responsible for the incident."

I really don't see what the intrusion with nuclear facilities and chemical plants would be. Is there any reason they couldn't do their job while having more protection? That's just how I feel about it.

I'm sorry, but when I heard that the government was aware that Bin Laden wanted to attack inside the U.S. and so little was done to prevent it, I do feel the ball was dropped. We all have a responsibility to do what we can, but most Americans don't have educations based around stopping terrorism. Many in government do. I don't see many of them giving pointers in the media as to what regular citizens should look out for.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:25pm

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/070705A.shtml

Type__A and others: Do read it all. Very measured. It reminds me of Maya Angelou's measured words after 9/11. "This is a time ... to think."

[amasis]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 7:57pm

Very glad you posted that. Thanks, Auggie.