R.I.P. Margaret Thatcher- Page 4

[Jungle Red]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:02pm

What's that line from WICKED about history books and the people in them? I'm coming up blank, but I feel it's appropriate.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:37pm

No one mourns the Wicked.

[BeadleDeedle]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:41pm

^^^ Nailed it

[Jungle Red]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:43pm

Nemo wins.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:53pm

Sung by the Wizard in Wonderful:



"Elphaba, where I'm from, we believe all sorts of
things that aren't true. We call it - "history."

A man's called a traitor - or liberator
A rich man's a thief - or philanthropist
Is one a crusader - or ruthless invader?
It's all in which label
Is able to persist
There are precious few at ease
With moral ambiguities
So we act as though they don't exist"

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:58pm

"I also never knew that Julia Child had similar views as well.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-09/news/mn-3491_1_julia-child"

I don't know enough about Child's own character, but I wouldn't put that lawsuit as anywhere on the same level as Thatcher's Section 28 law (or even say that that showed Child to have similar views as Thatcher on homosexuality--unless Child tried to get certain laws and bills passed that I'm completely unaware of...)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 7:58pm

Good lines. They're from Wicked? The musical? There's a song called "Wonderful"? Huh.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 8:07pm

There's a piece in the Daily Beast where it's opined that in Thatcher's heart of hearts she was for gay rights. Whatever. I didn't know she voted for decriminilizing it back in the 60s, though.

"As a member of Parliament (MP) in the 1960s, she was one of only a handful of Conservatives to vote for the decriminalization of homosexuality, a truly forward-thinking and brave gesture that she deserves a great deal of credit for.

Sadly, as Prime Minister, she would squander much of that credit (ironically enough, for a politician who put such stock in thrift) by lending her support to one of the nastiest anti-gay measures of modern times: the infamous Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988, which forbade schools from teaching "the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship." This was despite the open secret (among Westminster insiders, at least) that several prominent members of her government were themselves gay, albeit in reinforced-steel closets. It remains one of the darkest spots on her legacy.

History, however, always proceeds with a good dose of unintended consequence. It was Section 28, more than anything else, that galvanized and mobilized the modern British gay rights movement which, in just a quarter of a century, is on the verge of securing full legal equality for gays and lesbians. In her heart, I doubt Thatcher really regretted that development."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/08/margaret-thatcher-s-legacy-on-gay-rights.html

Dan Savage speaks about it in his blog, as well (again, for whatever it's worth.) http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/04/08/thatchers-death-two-questions

And the NYT has a piece about how the arts have displayed Thatcher over the years, including Billy Eliot (no big shock, it's largely negatively.)

[sabrelady]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 8:50pm

Been waiting a long time for this one.

MERRY CHRISTMAS MAGGIE THATCHER

Oh! It's bloody Maggie Thatcher and Michael Heseltine!
So Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher
May God's love be with you
We all sing together in one breath
Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher
We all celebrate today
Cos it's one day closer to your death

They've come to raid your stockings
And to steal your Christmas pud
But don't be too downhearted
It's all for your own good
The economic infrastructure
Must be swept away
To make way for business parks and lower rates of pay, so...

Merry Christmas, Maggie Thatcher
May God's love be with you
We all sing together it one breath
Merry Christmas, Maggie Thatcher
We all celebrate today
Cos it's one day closer to your death.
And they've brought their fascist bootboys
And they've brought the boys in blue
And the whole Trade Union Congress
will be at the party too
And they'll all hold hands together
All standing in a line
Cos they're privatising Santa
This merry Christmas time, so...
Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher
May God's love be with you
We all sing together in one breath
Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher
We all celebrate today
Coo it's one day closer to your death.

Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher
May God's love be with you
We all sing together in one breath
Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher
We all celebrate today
Coo it's one day closer to your death.


And if there is a G*d- "Lucy, u got SOME 'splainin' to do".

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 9:01pm

Tonight I learned about Section 28 for the first time. I had never heard of it before and when I was taking history courses, some of them covered the 20th century, this was never discussed. I also watched 'The Iron Lady' with my folks and I can't remember this law being discussed.

ETA: Before I read Eric's post I was watching NBC news with Bryan Williams and this was also not discussed. Updated On: 4/8/13 at 09:01 PM

Posted: 4/8/13 at 9:14pm

I have to say Elton John and Lee Hall were positively fond of the old girl compared to Elvis Costello:

I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young childs
Face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
Coming down on that childs lips

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, Im trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
Ill stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When england was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
The black tar macadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
Haunted by every tiny detail
Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
All she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say thank you straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because youve only got the symptoms, you haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose heads like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

Updated On: 4/8/13 at 09:14 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 9:35pm

"ETA: Before I read Eric's post I was watching NBC news with Bryan Williams and this was also not discussed. "

I have to admit, a part of me is ignorantly a bit surprised about that. I guess, again, it's my own biase because so much of what I do know about Thatcher is about the gay reaction to her politics in the '80s (including those gays who stood by and apparently idolized her.) I'm far more naive about her labour laws, even if they arguably cause more severe issues--simply because I've read less about them. But since I was a teenager I've been reading authors like Alan Hollinghurst whose (wonderful) Swimming Pool Library, while not blatantly political, was written in the 80s as a sort of thumbing of the nose to her policies by having so much unapologetically graphic gay sex (he also wrote her into a memorable scene in his much more political later book, The Line of Beauty.)

As people have been pointing out though, in some ways Section 28 (especially combined with the issue of AIDS) apparently helped British gays be more public and fight harder for their rights (Ian McKellen and others have said they came out publicly specifically as a confrontation to its passing.) WHen you read the actual wording of the bill, it's really not *all* that different from the current ridiculous "anti gay-propoganda" laws being passed in Russia--a scary thought.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 9:41pm

Why the Republican party would reject Margaret Thatcher now.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 9:53pm

90 minute documentary on tv here in the UK about her life and interviews with everyone close to her, the documentary was made ready for her death apparently, creepy

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 10:10pm

Why was she living at the Ritz?

This thread has been quite informative - y'all are so knowledgeable! (Well, except suestorm...)

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 10:46pm

Meryl Streep has just released a statement on Thatcher's death.


Meryl Streep: 'Margaret Thatcher was a pioneer'

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 11:51pm

Well, she's got a movie to sell, doesn't she?

Joekv99, if you think Costello's lyrics are harsh, just watch him sing "Tramp the Dirt Down". He fairly radiates contempt.
Skip to 4:15 if you don't want to listen to the interview.

[suestorm]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:36am

@GeriHalliwell: Thinking of our 1st Lady of girl power ,Margaret Thatcher...who taught me any thing is possible"

The original Spice Girl according to Ginger!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:56am

You're outnumbered world wide. You're reduced to posting a bloody, buggery Spice Girl tweet.

Updated On: 4/9/13 at 09:56 AM

[suestorm]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:09am

youre so backwards on that Nemo. aside from this little theater message board the vast majority of the world is honoring her legacy. check any newspaper/news network/ world leaders...

your lame-o hagiograhy thread is your acknowledgement of that.

Updated On: 4/9/13 at 10:09 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:11am

Uh huh.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:20am

Really Sue?

[suestorm]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:28am

yes really Erik

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/world/europe/uk-margaret-thatcher-reaction

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:30am

No, not really Sue.

[suestorm]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:34am

radicals, have nots,socialists Erik