Serious Discussion-Stress and Psych Disorders

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 1:55pm

Hey guys,
so this board is generally a hotbed of how hot so-and-so is and the latest misstep by the Bush Administration. Still, I thought it might be nice to have a thread devoted to serious topics outside the political spectrum or how great the abs are on Brad Pitt.
It was sort of spurred by a private conversation I was having today with some friends about the literary success of J.R.R. Tolkien, when many people do not realize he was a serious scholar and writer/teacher, as well as a contemporary of C.S. Lewis, among others.
In fact, much emphasis has been placed on how skillfully Tolkien took many languages (Scandinavian being one of the most important) and crafting the remarkable languages of the Elves and other races in his seminal work, "The Lord of the Rings."
Anyone want to join me for talking about some amazing literary masters? Or, if this is that dead a topic, someone feel free to start one.
Let's keep it apolitical (unless we're discussing, say, an artist's work in a political context) and let's not discuss 6-packs or what we'd like to do if we got someone alone in a room.
And threadjacks to discuss how hot someone's avatar is will not be tolerated.
Thank you.











Updated On: 2/28/06 at 01:55 PM

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:05pm

I love the idea, bway... Maybe it could be a new trend, much like the BWWCoD. There could be a BWW Serious Topic of the Day. There are so many issues that would be grand to explore.

Sadly, I have little of substance to add to any serious literary discussion without resorting to a M_E style Google search, but I'd be thrilled to read what others have to say. And will have plenty to say when it's a topic about which I am knowledgable.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:08pm

Why do you think Tolkien and Lewis wrote in such fantasy world themes, bway?

Spelling edit...
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 02:08 PM

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:08pm

Iflit, I LOVE your idea. in fact, I'm going back now to append the title with "of the day."
I'd be very happy to only read discussions about which I know nothing as well. If you have something fun to start with, be my guest!

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:09pm

My favorite author has got to be Gabriel García Marquez, winner of Nobel Prize for Literature in 1982. His masterpiece, "One Hundred Years of Solitude," is a thrilling read. There are so many layers... I first found the book in my early teens, as it's my dad's favorite book, and I loved it then. Later in college we had to read it and analyze it, and I fell in love with it even more.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:11pm

i'd like commend the early collaboration this thread has already spawned. that is all.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:12pm

who is also within the realm of a fantasy world of sorts, particularly Cien Años de Soledad, but as a more contemporary writer...

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:12pm

Thanks for playing, Cookie!
becuase, much like the use of satire, creating a fantasy world allowed them to sort of subversively explore contemporary issues out of context and to allow them not only to play out to their best possible conclusion but also to indict values and trends and people who were out of step with what's right.
Also, it was a great way to comment on religion without being overt about it and thus drawing the wrath of denominations which might disagree with them.
And, even further, it allowed them to fictionalize real relationships and the perils/joys of them. It's fairly well-documented that the Frodo/Sam relationship, contrary to the idea that it's pseudo-homosexual, is actually a recreation of a World War II British army idea. I can't remember offhand what it's called, but it involved a military man having a second, a man there who offered support to the fighter.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:14pm

I LOVE you guys!
I'd also like to point out, as I did with my buddies, that Tolkien has a much more important literary value than as the father of the modern fantasy story (In some ways, I do blame him for the advent of those sorry Dungeons and Dragons-style fantasy books, devoid of any real style and panache). He was a noted scholar and linguist and translated some works (among my favorite of his was a translation of "Gawain and the Green Knight").

DD, I haven't read "Solitude." Every time Is ee it in a bookstore, I know it should enter my "queue." here's hoping I make that a reality soon! He sounds like an author I would like. I love authors who work outside the boundaries of the drudgery of our "Real world", either through fantasy comparisons or magic realism or whatnot.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:16pm

García Marquez's style (for lack of a better word...) as with many Latin American authors, is referred to as "Magic Realism." It's not fantasy, but a reality in which fantastic things happen. A good example of this would be "Like Water for Chocolate," not by him, but well known in the US because of the movie.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:17pm

Hmmm... Good food for thought!

1) Both Tolkien and Lewis had Victorian childhoods, with which imagination was the only realm that they could escape into.

2) Having had to go through two World Wars, fantasy was also an escape valve they could use to weather the psychological aspects of wartime, while passing along the moral imperative of good versus evil with good always winning...

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:21pm

bway... I hope you pick it up. It's a great read. Well... to be honest, I found the English translation difficult to follow, but that was just me. You should also pick up "Love in the Time of Cholera" which, though not as 'magical' as "Solitude," it still has that special something about it.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:22pm

Oh, DD, you just said "magical" words to me. I will definitely pick up this book posthaste!

Cookie, not to diverge too far, but you can see this need for escape in a LOT of British things, right down to cinema, I do believe, after the World Wars. Fantasy provided a great landscape upon which to paint a lot of things, from indictment to dreams to wishes.

I just find it strange that Tolkien was probably considered the best and brightest among his contemporaries but, today, Lewis probably holds slightly higher regard in the literary world at large because, as I stated earlier, Tolkien's largely known as the herald of Dungeons and Dragons.
People forget his etymological craft, taking real languages, both past and present, and creating new, REAL languages. It's quite remarkable and a feat which I don't think has since been rivaled. Lots of sorrier fantasy writers attempt it, but all you really see is a word or two and vague references to the real language being lost.
Tolkien created, I think, about three REAL languages. So real, in fact, that many people actually LEARN them (specifically a generic form of Elvish) and speak it to each other and attend conventions and everything.
It's a level of geekdom, yes, but it's born out of the true mastery of that man.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:23pm

i think it was wwi, bway. the term you're looking for is a "batman." rather than being a winged crime fighter, it was kind of a personal servant to an officer.
batman

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:23pm

DD,
unfortunately, my grasp of Spanish is god-awful so I'll have to resort to the English translation. I do hate that. Prose has a remarkable and personal nature unique to each author and it's always lost in translation.
But perhaps I'll at least get his essence.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:26pm

Friends who've read it have loved it. I just know I was comparing it, which is not a fair comparison to make. Just make sure that the book you get has the 'family tree' inside or you will definitely be lost.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:28pm

Thanks for joining in, Papa. I'll follow that link but you're definitely right.
In fact, this is a silly little thing, but the first special edition of the Lord of the Rings is chock full of special features which bring up a LOT of these points, including the batman. It can only enhance your enjoyment even of a film which sadly had to filter out a LOT in order to tell a narrative, filmic story.

[mominator]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:29pm

The History Channel,did a wonderful documentary on Tolkein not too long ago. It talked about his up bringing in the lushness and how England changed after WW1, to a more industrialized economy.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:30pm

Love in the Time of Cholera is exceptional writing. Though the fantastical elements are certainly less prevalent than Cien Años... I read that when I was 14, I think. That family tree was earmarked to death!

bway: I'd say that the escapist aspect might have been more prevalent because of a Victorian upbringing. Particularly as a reaction to the very realism of Dicken's writings...

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:32pm

Mominator, you posted right on top of my last one. That feature is on the special edition DVD.

Cookie, this is a total, humorous tangent, but I love one of the literary titles assigned to Dickens: that of a serial realist.
It just makes me giggle to imagine Dickens being so pragmatic about his choice of Cocoa Puffs or Rice Krispies.

And I see your point about Victorian upbringing. I have a huge amount of the escapist in me as well because my own childhood, like that of a lot of children in the south, is still moded off Victorian values.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:35pm

bway: Given his dark realism, I think he would have gone for the shredded wheat or the Mueslix...

[mominator]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:36pm

oops sorry bway!! It was just so neat to see where some of his ideas may have come from. And who among us here just would have loved to be a fly on the wall when he and Lewis met at the pub?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:37pm

No kidding.
And you know, I do loves me some Dickens. We should talk about him for a minute. I haven't read all of his works, but I do think it's a shame something like "A Christmas Carol" (even Oliver!) has become so well-known by its cinematic counterparts that most people don't realize what's there.
And, wouldn't you agree that, even given his darker realistic aspects, he still, in some ways, offers a rosy ending? After all, look at Scrooge's redemption.
Redemption is an amazingly oft-recurring theme among writers who went through Victorian/Edwardian restrictions. I'd also extend that idea to Colonial American writers as well.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:42pm

Ah, and my problem with Dickens is his verbosity. The pages and pages and pages and pages of Madame Defarge's knitting!

Redemption at the end of his writings. It adds a spiritual aspect to it, as that's the message of Christianity to begin with... The prospects of redemption at the end. But at costs, of course... Nancy loses her life to Bill Sykes to save Oliver Twist.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/19/06 at 2:45pm

Hawthorne was the same. Everything with a price. And talk about dark (although I do love him)AND verbose. I think I'm a fairly literate guy and I still have to read and re-read and re-re-read parts of his works.