#251
Posted: 10/2/12 at 8:55am
And hey, it's a comedy! Having a bonding moment over a racist joke in the very episode where discrimination was shown to be wrong is super hilarious.
THE New Normal — Page 11
#252
Posted: 10/2/12 at 8:58am
It's kind of like how complicated life is. Liberals only voted for Obama because he's colored. Not for another reason like Gramps McCain and his campaign of regression. Really makes you think.
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#253
Posted: 10/2/12 at 9:08am
Exactly. Who knew that a typical gay couple only voted for Obama because he was black? Thank goodness Herman Cain didn't run then, or they would have been soooo confused.
#255
Posted: 10/2/12 at 9:50am
Well, there ya go. Their voting for Barack was inevitable.
#256
Posted: 10/2/12 at 9:50am
I never said the politics made me think, the thing that made me think (along with a similar experience) is how cruel some people can be in public with no disregard for that persons feelings.
As for the bonding over the racist joke.....really?
The amount of time we hear gay jokes on TV, fat jokes on TV (nearly every episode of Mike and Molly), jokes about women etc.....yet that moment is what offended you all? give me a break
Someone earlier in this thread said something like it's fine for gay men to make lesbian jokes etc in the confines of their own home but on TV it's wrong because so many many will see it and be influenced by it. Yet if TV is supposed to represent real life then how can that be OK?
I have heard far more offensive jokes in other TV shows, i really am stunned as to what people are so hung up on.
As for the bonding over the racist joke.....really?
The amount of time we hear gay jokes on TV, fat jokes on TV (nearly every episode of Mike and Molly), jokes about women etc.....yet that moment is what offended you all? give me a break
Someone earlier in this thread said something like it's fine for gay men to make lesbian jokes etc in the confines of their own home but on TV it's wrong because so many many will see it and be influenced by it. Yet if TV is supposed to represent real life then how can that be OK?
I have heard far more offensive jokes in other TV shows, i really am stunned as to what people are so hung up on.
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#257
Posted: 10/2/12 at 9:56am
I've never been offended by it. I just find the characters unbelievable and unlikeable and the jokes unfunny.
#258
Posted: 10/2/12 at 10:03am
"I never said the politics made me think, the thing that made me think (along with a similar experience) is how cruel some people can be in public with no disregard for that persons feelings."
I'm beginning to think we're talking about different episodes. In which case, I'm relieved.
I'm beginning to think we're talking about different episodes. In which case, I'm relieved.
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#259
Posted: 10/2/12 at 10:41am
I no longer watch the show so I didn't see the episode being discussed- but the gay couple (who is in the process of adopting a child) never said that part of the reason they vote democratic is that the republican party would never allow them to be married or to adopt a child?
#260
Posted: 10/2/12 at 10:51am
I was not offended by that racist joke they bonded over more than others. I just found it odd that a bridge that crossed the divide between the guys and the clearly racist granny was a shared racist joke, Avenue Q style, in an episode highlighting the negativity in words/jokes (the gym guy in the back of the line calling the man a retard, the "retard" calling them fags).
Everyone's a bigot! Huzzah! Just be bigoted in the ways we can bond over?
Everyone's a bigot! Huzzah! Just be bigoted in the ways we can bond over?
Updated On: 10/2/12 at 10:51 AM
#261
Posted: 10/2/12 at 10:52am
Since when is The New Normal supposed to be depicting real life?
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#262
Posted: 10/2/12 at 11:10am
I think the title at least implies some connection to it.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#263
Posted: 10/2/12 at 1:09pm
It's supposed to be depciting Ryan Murpy's real life!
As for the bonding over the racist joke.....really?
The amount of time we hear gay jokes on TV, fat jokes on TV (nearly every episode of Mike and Molly), jokes about women etc.....yet that moment is what offended you all? give me a break
Well, I'm not a fan of gay jokes and fat jokes either (though I would never punish myself by watching Mike and Molly) and when I hear misogny on tv I go pretty apoplectic, so do I get a pass on not liking the lazy and obivous "with six you get eggroll" joke?
Someone earlier in this thread said something like it's fine for gay men to make lesbian jokes etc in the confines of their own home but on TV it's wrong because so many many will see it and be influenced by it. Yet if TV is supposed to represent real life then how can that be OK?
Well, I think it's okay in the same way you can make racist jokes in your own home, but I wouldn't want to hear them on tv. And not all of us talk disparagingly about lesbians when we're alone.
I have heard far more offensive jokes in other TV shows, i really am stunned as to what people are so hung up on.
But you're not offended by anything, isn't that what you're saying? When I hear offensive stuff on other shows, I get irritated by that, too, it's not like it's just The New Normal for me.
Here's something that I'm sick of that I've seen on this show and others, including Partners, which I generally like. I'm sick of tv gay guys having to put their body issues on other people, even in the absurd, like on New Normal when Bryan worries about having a fat baby or when Michael Urie denied his not fat dog food. Maybe I'm just an anomaly as a gay guy but I'm not scared of fat people or even scared of gaining weight myself.
As for the bonding over the racist joke.....really?
The amount of time we hear gay jokes on TV, fat jokes on TV (nearly every episode of Mike and Molly), jokes about women etc.....yet that moment is what offended you all? give me a break
Well, I'm not a fan of gay jokes and fat jokes either (though I would never punish myself by watching Mike and Molly) and when I hear misogny on tv I go pretty apoplectic, so do I get a pass on not liking the lazy and obivous "with six you get eggroll" joke?
Someone earlier in this thread said something like it's fine for gay men to make lesbian jokes etc in the confines of their own home but on TV it's wrong because so many many will see it and be influenced by it. Yet if TV is supposed to represent real life then how can that be OK?
Well, I think it's okay in the same way you can make racist jokes in your own home, but I wouldn't want to hear them on tv. And not all of us talk disparagingly about lesbians when we're alone.
I have heard far more offensive jokes in other TV shows, i really am stunned as to what people are so hung up on.
But you're not offended by anything, isn't that what you're saying? When I hear offensive stuff on other shows, I get irritated by that, too, it's not like it's just The New Normal for me.
Here's something that I'm sick of that I've seen on this show and others, including Partners, which I generally like. I'm sick of tv gay guys having to put their body issues on other people, even in the absurd, like on New Normal when Bryan worries about having a fat baby or when Michael Urie denied his not fat dog food. Maybe I'm just an anomaly as a gay guy but I'm not scared of fat people or even scared of gaining weight myself.
Updated On: 10/2/12 at 01:09 PM
#264
Posted: 10/2/12 at 1:40pm
I think the difference is when we hear jokes about Johnny Sack's fat wife on The Sopranos we expect those characters to say these things and we can judge the characters accordingly.
The New Normal is presenting/marketing itself as a progressive program, yet there is very little that's progressive about the portrayal of gays.
And of course it's purporting itself as real life. This IS what normal is now. Old versions of "normal" are false and this is the new reality.
The New Normal is presenting/marketing itself as a progressive program, yet there is very little that's progressive about the portrayal of gays.
And of course it's purporting itself as real life. This IS what normal is now. Old versions of "normal" are false and this is the new reality.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#265
Posted: 10/2/12 at 1:54pm
The New Normal portrays gays in the way it is palatable to straight America. Gays are the new minstrel shows. The gay men need to be handsome, fit, wealthy, witty and spar with a grand dame. Middle America can handle that-for now. I also found Jack Mc Farland pretty repellant, but he was what America could handle.
I'm tired of the comparisons to "All In The Family". Those characters were grounded in reality. We all knew people like that. I don't know anyone like the "Normal" characters who are all in the stratosphere and aren't even talking to each other. They speak in quips and soundbytes. If I knew anyone like them, I'd move.
I'm tired of the comparisons to "All In The Family". Those characters were grounded in reality. We all knew people like that. I don't know anyone like the "Normal" characters who are all in the stratosphere and aren't even talking to each other. They speak in quips and soundbytes. If I knew anyone like them, I'd move.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#266
Posted: 10/2/12 at 2:08pm
When the show invoked Obama before the election and a main character refers to him as "your boy" and she is allowed to get away with saying that her nemeses only elected the man because he is black and there is nobody who responds to it with anything stronger than a quizzical "maybe she has a point" ... then to me that's something to get pissed off about.
The funny lady and the fat guy on Mike & Molly can call each other fat to their heart's clogged content. There is a WORLD of difference in intent and execution, and to dismiss the concerns of people who have clearly thought about it and posted their sincere reactions is a complete cop out.
The funny lady and the fat guy on Mike & Molly can call each other fat to their heart's clogged content. There is a WORLD of difference in intent and execution, and to dismiss the concerns of people who have clearly thought about it and posted their sincere reactions is a complete cop out.
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Updated On: 10/2/12 at 02:08 PM
#267
Posted: 10/2/12 at 2:15pm
'The gay men need to be handsome, fit, wealthy, witty and spar with a grand dame.'
But...we're already getting past that. That's why this feels a little retro to me. I don't even love Modern Family, but Cam and Mitchell simply don't fit into the TV stereotype. They are recognizable (Mitchell much more so than Cam. I'm actually generally stumped by the love for Eric Stonestreet. I think Jesse Tyler Ferguson is giving the performance of the show...at least from the men). And with Adam Pally's performance as Max on Happy Endings, we see something even more rare, in terms of gay representation.
Personally, I feel that Andrew Rannells brings a great deal of his own personal charm, warmth and humanity to a character that could be fatal for this show. I know many people don't agree, but I'm ok with that. And I think there's a chance for this premise to work. It's just not being executed in the way I had hoped.
But...we're already getting past that. That's why this feels a little retro to me. I don't even love Modern Family, but Cam and Mitchell simply don't fit into the TV stereotype. They are recognizable (Mitchell much more so than Cam. I'm actually generally stumped by the love for Eric Stonestreet. I think Jesse Tyler Ferguson is giving the performance of the show...at least from the men). And with Adam Pally's performance as Max on Happy Endings, we see something even more rare, in terms of gay representation.
Personally, I feel that Andrew Rannells brings a great deal of his own personal charm, warmth and humanity to a character that could be fatal for this show. I know many people don't agree, but I'm ok with that. And I think there's a chance for this premise to work. It's just not being executed in the way I had hoped.
#268
Posted: 10/2/12 at 3:25pm
And with Adam Pally's performance as Max on Happy Endings, we see something even more rare, in terms of gay representation.
Aesthetically, perhaps. But he's still completely superficial, shallow, unintelligent, catty and self-absorbed. Basically, Jack MacFarland in a new wrapper. Max is just not as "trendy".
The funny lady and the fat guy on Mike & Molly can call each other fat to their heart's clogged content. There is a WORLD of difference in intent and execution...
Absolutely. Mike & Molly has a level of self-awareness and confidence that is far beyond the characters of The New Normal, so I don't think the comparison is apt at all. The level of banter between the characters and their family and friends was very clearly established by what is deemed permissible between them. If we hear Molly's mom make a fat joke at Molly's expense, we'll also hear Molly make an alcoholic joke at her mother's expense and we've been given a lot of background and history in their relationships that supports their level of communication.
Aesthetically, perhaps. But he's still completely superficial, shallow, unintelligent, catty and self-absorbed. Basically, Jack MacFarland in a new wrapper. Max is just not as "trendy".
The funny lady and the fat guy on Mike & Molly can call each other fat to their heart's clogged content. There is a WORLD of difference in intent and execution...
Absolutely. Mike & Molly has a level of self-awareness and confidence that is far beyond the characters of The New Normal, so I don't think the comparison is apt at all. The level of banter between the characters and their family and friends was very clearly established by what is deemed permissible between them. If we hear Molly's mom make a fat joke at Molly's expense, we'll also hear Molly make an alcoholic joke at her mother's expense and we've been given a lot of background and history in their relationships that supports their level of communication.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Updated On: 10/2/12 at 03:25 PM
#269
Posted: 10/2/12 at 4:29pm
I actually think Max is closer to a lovable sociopath. Which is why I like the character (though not as much as Jane).
#270
Posted: 10/2/12 at 5:19pm
Similarly, The New Normal announces its offensive stereotypes as if it were shouting them through one of Sue Sylvester's bullhorns. TNN has already caught a lot of flack for its "lesbian problem," as it reduces all lesbians to "ugly men" with "gingerbread man bodies," but this is pretty much the tip of one big problematic, racist iceberg. In one greatmoment for the history of gay characters, main gay Bryan (Andrew Rannells) refers to vaginas as "tarantula faces," with the implication that gay men think vaginas are icky and gross. Elsewhere, he prances around a lot, listens to Lady Gaga, talks about dressing his baby up in Marc Jacobs clothes and does lots of other stereotypically "gay things." This is not progress. This is pretty much the same crap that shows like In Living Color (see: their "Men on Film" sketches) used to pull, except now the "Equal Opportunity Offenders" are on "our team" (aka. Team Queer). As a self-proclaimed "femme," I know there's nothing wrong with being effeminate, but nothing about Murphy's characterization of femme males feels particularly nuanced...
Barkin's Nana exists in some Paul Haggis-ian alternate universe where people can just shout racist invective all the time, in place of actual conversation. And in The New Normal, the people around them just shrug it off or laugh at them dismissively. Because old people are so old, amiright?
The whole thing is worth a read, particularly when it speaks to the comparisons people keep trying to make between Nana and Archie Bunker.
'Gaycism' and The New Normal: The 'Hot' Trend on TV Is Bigotry
Barkin's Nana exists in some Paul Haggis-ian alternate universe where people can just shout racist invective all the time, in place of actual conversation. And in The New Normal, the people around them just shrug it off or laugh at them dismissively. Because old people are so old, amiright?
The whole thing is worth a read, particularly when it speaks to the comparisons people keep trying to make between Nana and Archie Bunker.
'Gaycism' and The New Normal: The 'Hot' Trend on TV Is Bigotry
#271
Posted: 10/2/12 at 7:45pm
'The funny lady and the fat guy on Mike & Molly can call each other fat to their heart's clogged content. There is a WORLD of difference in intent and execution, and to dismiss the concerns of people who have clearly thought about it and posted their sincere reactions is a complete cop out.'
I said i don't see what the big deal is, i also said that whilst 'Some of the over reactions to this show on here are hysterical, some are fascinating'. I am just saying that for me i think it's all very silly. yes it stereotypes but so many other shows dp the same. Yes it's saying things that could raise an eyebrow of the sensitive types, but so do may other shows. I guess i am just not getting why this one is the one that seems to be upsetting so many. Nothing NEW is said in this show, nothing we have not heard before. And as for the 'only voting for the president because he's black' line, i am pretty sure EVERY media source when he was running was talking about his race, when he was elected one of the first things we heard was 'we have the first black president' etc, so i can see why the character (who is so against that party) would say something like that......many did at the time.
And yes nobody really answered back when she said that but this is a sitcom, it's not late night politics, it's going for the joke first and any other 'moral message' it thinks it's making second.
As for stereotyping or presenting an obvious image of a gay man to middle America, Having watched the second episode of Partners i have to say i find the stereotyping in that show worse. As much as i like MU it's like the writers have given him every stereotype rolled in to one to play with. And 2 lesbian jokes were made on last nights episode of the show.....should we be up in arms about that as well?
I said i don't see what the big deal is, i also said that whilst 'Some of the over reactions to this show on here are hysterical, some are fascinating'. I am just saying that for me i think it's all very silly. yes it stereotypes but so many other shows dp the same. Yes it's saying things that could raise an eyebrow of the sensitive types, but so do may other shows. I guess i am just not getting why this one is the one that seems to be upsetting so many. Nothing NEW is said in this show, nothing we have not heard before. And as for the 'only voting for the president because he's black' line, i am pretty sure EVERY media source when he was running was talking about his race, when he was elected one of the first things we heard was 'we have the first black president' etc, so i can see why the character (who is so against that party) would say something like that......many did at the time.
And yes nobody really answered back when she said that but this is a sitcom, it's not late night politics, it's going for the joke first and any other 'moral message' it thinks it's making second.
As for stereotyping or presenting an obvious image of a gay man to middle America, Having watched the second episode of Partners i have to say i find the stereotyping in that show worse. As much as i like MU it's like the writers have given him every stereotype rolled in to one to play with. And 2 lesbian jokes were made on last nights episode of the show.....should we be up in arms about that as well?
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
Updated On: 10/2/12 at 07:45 PM
#272
Posted: 10/2/12 at 7:50pm
it's going for the joke first and any other 'moral message' it thinks it's making second.
True for every show but a Ryan Murphy show
True for every show but a Ryan Murphy show
#273
Posted: 10/2/12 at 8:17pm
"Should we be up in arms about that as well?"
Yes, if it upsets you. If not, no.
You seem to think that the people who don't like "The New Normal" are just manufacturing their disaffection for the show. Also that one bigoted character (or joke) equals any other. I don't think either of those things are true.
But as I said earlier, speaking for myself, I'm not offended; I'm just not amused or entertained. I often find outrageous characters a joy to watch. But I like them to be well conceived, and I like the show to give them a proper context. I don't think that's the case here.
But again, that's just me. I like all sorts of things that I'm sure few others would. And, of course, I don't require them to.
Yes, if it upsets you. If not, no.
You seem to think that the people who don't like "The New Normal" are just manufacturing their disaffection for the show. Also that one bigoted character (or joke) equals any other. I don't think either of those things are true.
But as I said earlier, speaking for myself, I'm not offended; I'm just not amused or entertained. I often find outrageous characters a joy to watch. But I like them to be well conceived, and I like the show to give them a proper context. I don't think that's the case here.
But again, that's just me. I like all sorts of things that I'm sure few others would. And, of course, I don't require them to.
#274
Posted: 10/2/12 at 8:53pm
And as for the 'only voting for the president because he's black' line, i am pretty sure EVERY media source when he was running was talking about his race, when he was elected one of the first things we heard was 'we have the first black president' etc, so i can see why the character (who is so against that party) would say something like that......many did at the time.
But discussing his race (in the context that there had never before been a black president in this country) isn't even remotely the same thing as saying "people voted for him because he was black." And if you can't see that, then you're suffering from the some myopia that the show fell into in the last episode. And while I'm sure some people did vote for him because he was black (in the way that some people DIDN'T vote for him because he was black) I don't know a single person who voted for Obama who voted for him because he was black. They (and I) voted for him because he's a Democrat.
I don't get all the complaints (here and across the interwebs) about Michael Urie acting "stereotypical," either. I think some people hace gotten to a point where they think that seem to think that a gay who isn't "straight-acting" and can't pass is a stereotype. when you know what, some guys just act like that. And while Urie's character is what people like to derisively call "flamboyant" he still seems a damn site more real to me than Andrew Rannell's character. And I did "ugh" at the one lesbian joke I remember from last night's Partners (the one about them still having sex because they weren't lesbians. what was the other?), I thought that that was nothing compared to the mean-spirited lesbian jokes already peppered throughout The New Normal.
I did have to laugh a bit and songanddanceman's comment that there is nothing new to The New Normal, since it's being sold and (in many cases) received as some kind of groundbreaking television watershed. So it's funny to me that someone who is vigorously defending it is saying it's "nothing new."
And like reg, I've never claimed to be offended by the New Normal. I just think it's terrible, so the only thing it offends is my sense of good television.
But discussing his race (in the context that there had never before been a black president in this country) isn't even remotely the same thing as saying "people voted for him because he was black." And if you can't see that, then you're suffering from the some myopia that the show fell into in the last episode. And while I'm sure some people did vote for him because he was black (in the way that some people DIDN'T vote for him because he was black) I don't know a single person who voted for Obama who voted for him because he was black. They (and I) voted for him because he's a Democrat.
I don't get all the complaints (here and across the interwebs) about Michael Urie acting "stereotypical," either. I think some people hace gotten to a point where they think that seem to think that a gay who isn't "straight-acting" and can't pass is a stereotype. when you know what, some guys just act like that. And while Urie's character is what people like to derisively call "flamboyant" he still seems a damn site more real to me than Andrew Rannell's character. And I did "ugh" at the one lesbian joke I remember from last night's Partners (the one about them still having sex because they weren't lesbians. what was the other?), I thought that that was nothing compared to the mean-spirited lesbian jokes already peppered throughout The New Normal.
I did have to laugh a bit and songanddanceman's comment that there is nothing new to The New Normal, since it's being sold and (in many cases) received as some kind of groundbreaking television watershed. So it's funny to me that someone who is vigorously defending it is saying it's "nothing new."
And like reg, I've never claimed to be offended by the New Normal. I just think it's terrible, so the only thing it offends is my sense of good television.
#275
Posted: 10/2/12 at 8:59pm
The "racist" joke last week didn't offend me at all and to be honest I didn't even think it was a "racist joke". In fact, one of, if not THE funniest line in all of MODERN FAMILY was right at the beginning when Mitchell and Cam introduce the baby to Phil and say "This is Lily" and Phil's response - "Won't that be difficult for her to say?"
I don't think I'd ever laughed so hard at anything on TV since Lucy got stuck in the freezer eating a box of Vitameatavegamin filled chocolates on the assembly line.
I don't think I'd ever laughed so hard at anything on TV since Lucy got stuck in the freezer eating a box of Vitameatavegamin filled chocolates on the assembly line.
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