The Dark Knight — Page 5
#102
Posted: 7/21/08 at 5:08pm
It's hard for any American to look at building wreckage and not think of 9/11. I don't think it was a reference. Also, the terrorists, when given the choice, did not throw away their nuclear weapons. I fail to see how that is a reference either.
#103
Posted: 7/21/08 at 6:05pm
Guaranteed to be one of the best movies of the year, and a shoo-in nomination for Heath Ledger. His performance is absolutely astounding. Pure brilliance, plain and simple.
The movie, itself, is the best comic book movie ever made, and actually transcends its own genre. Imaginative, nihilistic, involving, richly plotted, solidly acted, and beautifully structured. Any minor complaints can be put to rest. It's fantastic, and I can't wait to see it again.
The movie, itself, is the best comic book movie ever made, and actually transcends its own genre. Imaginative, nihilistic, involving, richly plotted, solidly acted, and beautifully structured. Any minor complaints can be put to rest. It's fantastic, and I can't wait to see it again.
#104
Posted: 7/21/08 at 6:14pm
I saw it this afternoon. I have a few questions.
**********SPOILERS**********
Did Morgan Freeman resign at the end? He seemed really piss at Batman. Wonder if this was Morgan Freeman's way of leaving the series. He had a much smaller role in this film than he did the first one. It really wasn't that clear.
I assume Eric Roberts died. Yeah, Two Face killed the driver and the car crashed but Two Face survived so are we to assume Eric Roberts character did as well?
Why bring Scarecrow back for a blink and you miss it cameo? Sort of a waste in my opinion.
I thought it was lame the way they made Batman the scapegoat at the end. What purpose was this suppose to serve?
Having said all that, I did like this film, just not as much as the first one. I agree that of Ledger was still alive the hype would not be as big. The fact that Ledger died in January actually allowed people to mourn his death vs. if he died in the spring or closer to the release date.
What I liked about the first Batman film was how neat and tidy everything was. No loose ends when the film ended. With this one there was a lot of stuff left hanging.(including the Joker)
I thought this was almost like a Shakespearean tragedy. Harvey Dent's story was brilliant. I like the three characters, Dent, Gordon, and Batman. I thought the story telling was brilliant and well paced. To those who felt it was too long you must understand that we needed the time to establish these characters. I actually felt something when this hero that Dent was fell from grace. His world ended. He was actually stronger and better than Batman and Bruce Wayne knew it.
I think the film is over hyped but I also think it was a great sequel, but I still liked Batman Begins better.
So, I am already hearing the Penguin may be the villain for the 3rd film. Just hope we don;t have to wait 3 years before it comes out.
**********SPOILERS**********
Did Morgan Freeman resign at the end? He seemed really piss at Batman. Wonder if this was Morgan Freeman's way of leaving the series. He had a much smaller role in this film than he did the first one. It really wasn't that clear.
I assume Eric Roberts died. Yeah, Two Face killed the driver and the car crashed but Two Face survived so are we to assume Eric Roberts character did as well?
Why bring Scarecrow back for a blink and you miss it cameo? Sort of a waste in my opinion.
I thought it was lame the way they made Batman the scapegoat at the end. What purpose was this suppose to serve?
Having said all that, I did like this film, just not as much as the first one. I agree that of Ledger was still alive the hype would not be as big. The fact that Ledger died in January actually allowed people to mourn his death vs. if he died in the spring or closer to the release date.
What I liked about the first Batman film was how neat and tidy everything was. No loose ends when the film ended. With this one there was a lot of stuff left hanging.(including the Joker)
I thought this was almost like a Shakespearean tragedy. Harvey Dent's story was brilliant. I like the three characters, Dent, Gordon, and Batman. I thought the story telling was brilliant and well paced. To those who felt it was too long you must understand that we needed the time to establish these characters. I actually felt something when this hero that Dent was fell from grace. His world ended. He was actually stronger and better than Batman and Bruce Wayne knew it.
I think the film is over hyped but I also think it was a great sequel, but I still liked Batman Begins better.
So, I am already hearing the Penguin may be the villain for the 3rd film. Just hope we don;t have to wait 3 years before it comes out.
'There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently'
-Robert Evans-
#105
Posted: 7/21/08 at 6:53pm
romantico I wondered the same thing about Fox. He did enter his name at the end after all but then it looked like the screens/computers whatever they were crashed?? Did her do that on purpose?
I really liked the film but felt that the Dent/Two Face story was so so rushed and cut!
I really liked the film but felt that the Dent/Two Face story was so so rushed and cut!
#107
Posted: 7/21/08 at 7:14pm
I liked it, but not as much as I hoped. I was mostly horribly disappointed by how underused Two-Face was. As one of the most interesting villains in the Batman canon (living his life and dictating his actions by the flip of his coin), the fact that they tried to shove his entire existence into the last half hour of the film was disgraceful. With a movie as overlong as this one was, having Dent disappear after taking out the corrupt police officers and having the movie end with Joker getting arrested would have been a better idea.
Poor Christian Bale, a fantastically talented actor, is given nothing to do in this movie. The only time he was really interesting was playing the Bruce Wayne's playboy persona, because then he was at least funny.
However, I'm in the camp that thinks Heath Ledger was phenomenal. It's no wonder Christian Bale doesn't have anything to do: Heath Ledger gets all the good material. The magic disappearing pencil certainly set the tone for the rest of his performance.
Some great supporting performances, though, by Michael Caine and Gary Oldman. It's just too bad that the movie doesn't have the material to support it's length.
I assume Eric Roberts died. Yeah, Two Face killed the driver and the car crashed but Two Face survived so are we to assume Eric Roberts character did as well?
I thought killing the driver was Dent's way of killing both the driver and Eric Roberts' character. Note how Dent buckles his seatbelt right before shooting the driver; Eric Roberts wasn't wearing his.
Poor Christian Bale, a fantastically talented actor, is given nothing to do in this movie. The only time he was really interesting was playing the Bruce Wayne's playboy persona, because then he was at least funny.
However, I'm in the camp that thinks Heath Ledger was phenomenal. It's no wonder Christian Bale doesn't have anything to do: Heath Ledger gets all the good material. The magic disappearing pencil certainly set the tone for the rest of his performance.
Some great supporting performances, though, by Michael Caine and Gary Oldman. It's just too bad that the movie doesn't have the material to support it's length.
I assume Eric Roberts died. Yeah, Two Face killed the driver and the car crashed but Two Face survived so are we to assume Eric Roberts character did as well?
I thought killing the driver was Dent's way of killing both the driver and Eric Roberts' character. Note how Dent buckles his seatbelt right before shooting the driver; Eric Roberts wasn't wearing his.
#108
Posted: 7/21/08 at 7:25pm
Spoilers, but everyone else has already said this...
Yeah, that was the point, killing both of them. If he had just shot the mob boss, the driver might have a gun or something. He puts his seatbelt on and shoots the driver (who probably is also wearing one, making this the only way to effectively kill him), making sure both men die.
Also, no, Morgan Freeman's character does not resign at the end. As long as those sonar things were there, he would not be. Putting in his name, we assume, deletes/erases the program. He is smiling slightly as he gets up and walks off. At the same time, I believe, the voiceover is talking about rewarding loyalty. So no...he doesn't quit.
Yeah, that was the point, killing both of them. If he had just shot the mob boss, the driver might have a gun or something. He puts his seatbelt on and shoots the driver (who probably is also wearing one, making this the only way to effectively kill him), making sure both men die.
Also, no, Morgan Freeman's character does not resign at the end. As long as those sonar things were there, he would not be. Putting in his name, we assume, deletes/erases the program. He is smiling slightly as he gets up and walks off. At the same time, I believe, the voiceover is talking about rewarding loyalty. So no...he doesn't quit.
#109
Posted: 7/21/08 at 7:54pm
**My post contains spoilers.
"I thought it was lame the way they made Batman the scapegoat at the end. What purpose was this"
That was absolutely essential to the theme/ideas of the film.
One of the things stated again and again about Dent in the film is that he is the white knight. He is the one who stands for good and will fight within the system to get things fixed. He is the people's beacon of hope that the world can change for the better while decent people still remain decent and play by the rules.
For the people to know that even the white knight, the one who stood for them publicaly and puts his life on the line for them while still obeying the rules, has turned murderous would shatter the hope of the masses.
So the fault gets put on the dark knight, Batman, who still fights for the people. But he represents the fact that you can fight these people, but to do so you might have to sink to their level to do so. He isn't liked all the time, but he does what needs to be done, even if its ugly. And Batman felt the need for the people to keep the image of their white knight (Dent), so he makes himself even more of a dark knight by taking the blame.
I need to see the film again before I try to put the themes of the film together, but it very poignantly shows that their are shades of good and evil in everyone. Except for the Joker, which is what makes him so terrifying.
My favorite moment of the film is when the prisoner on the ship takes the detonator and throws it overboard, when you think he is going to detonate it. It is the inverse of what the Joker is saying. The Joker says that even in the best person (Dent) there is evil. But that moment with the prisoner that even in bad people, there is good.
Sorry for the long rant but this film just fascinated me in regards to these themes and I really need to see it again to be able to write more coherently about it.
"I thought it was lame the way they made Batman the scapegoat at the end. What purpose was this"
That was absolutely essential to the theme/ideas of the film.
One of the things stated again and again about Dent in the film is that he is the white knight. He is the one who stands for good and will fight within the system to get things fixed. He is the people's beacon of hope that the world can change for the better while decent people still remain decent and play by the rules.
For the people to know that even the white knight, the one who stood for them publicaly and puts his life on the line for them while still obeying the rules, has turned murderous would shatter the hope of the masses.
So the fault gets put on the dark knight, Batman, who still fights for the people. But he represents the fact that you can fight these people, but to do so you might have to sink to their level to do so. He isn't liked all the time, but he does what needs to be done, even if its ugly. And Batman felt the need for the people to keep the image of their white knight (Dent), so he makes himself even more of a dark knight by taking the blame.
I need to see the film again before I try to put the themes of the film together, but it very poignantly shows that their are shades of good and evil in everyone. Except for the Joker, which is what makes him so terrifying.
My favorite moment of the film is when the prisoner on the ship takes the detonator and throws it overboard, when you think he is going to detonate it. It is the inverse of what the Joker is saying. The Joker says that even in the best person (Dent) there is evil. But that moment with the prisoner that even in bad people, there is good.
Sorry for the long rant but this film just fascinated me in regards to these themes and I really need to see it again to be able to write more coherently about it.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#110
Posted: 7/21/08 at 9:11pm
MOAR SPOILERS. I see a trend here.
Am I the only person who didn't think the prisoner was going to set off the bomb? I expected him to break the detonator, not throw it out the window, but close enough.
Am I the only person who didn't think the prisoner was going to set off the bomb? I expected him to break the detonator, not throw it out the window, but close enough.
#111
Posted: 7/21/08 at 9:15pm
Also, all the 9/11 imagery (That one powerful shot with Batman near the Ground Zero-like wreckage of the hospital) was also sort of making a statement on how humanity is bigger than those that tries to destroy it. The ferry situation was very similar of what allegedly occurred on board United 93. Humans are bigger than their enemies. Ultimately, the movie believes in good defeating evil but, as Priest said, sometimes you have to sink to their level to do it.
#112
Posted: 7/21/08 at 11:33pm
I saw the movie tonight, and I really enjoyed it. I did feel it was overlong, it was certainly gripping, even at the end. And I felt Ledger was terrific, he was truly terrifying.
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
#113
Posted: 7/22/08 at 2:23am
I LOVED this movie. SO SO much. It is so much more than just a comic book/superhero movie. Its themes were so deep and it was so much more intense and emotional than I expected... I personally think it was absolutely amazing.
Heath was INCREDIBLE as the Joker. For me, his performance lived up to the hype. He was so completely committed to the character, it was like he was LIVING the role.
I can't wait to see the movie again. It was just so great on SO many levels.
Heath was INCREDIBLE as the Joker. For me, his performance lived up to the hype. He was so completely committed to the character, it was like he was LIVING the role.
I can't wait to see the movie again. It was just so great on SO many levels.
#114
Posted: 7/22/08 at 10:54am
did anyone else think Maggie (Rachel) needed a better make up artist and stylist? Poor thing looked so frumpy and dumpy in my opinion.
#115
Posted: 7/22/08 at 3:53pm
Agreed, Evie. I could see the circles (I hesitate to say "bags", it makes her sound older) under her eyes in IMAX.
Wow, Cruel, you're really intent on seeing 9/11 imagery.
Wow, Cruel, you're really intent on seeing 9/11 imagery.
#116
Posted: 7/22/08 at 3:58pm
Yeah, yeah, deep themes, and all that. And what did it really do with any of these "deep themes"? Not very much of anything really.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#118
Posted: 7/22/08 at 4:19pm
If they'd cut that whole useless trip to Hong Kong they might have had more time. And I just don't see how it makes any sense at all to be transporting a boat full of criminals, what the hell was that anyway?
But no! Wait! The movie was FUN!! So that means I can totally ignore all of its problems!! As long as a movie is FUN, it doesn't matter if it is any good at all!!
But no! Wait! The movie was FUN!! So that means I can totally ignore all of its problems!! As long as a movie is FUN, it doesn't matter if it is any good at all!!
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Updated On: 7/22/08 at 04:19 PM
#119
Posted: 7/22/08 at 4:25pm
They addressed the need to get the criminals off the island first trying to stay ahead of the Joker. What they didn't realize is that's exactly what they wanted.
But bitch bitch bitch. That's what you do best, roscoe. Yawn.
But bitch bitch bitch. That's what you do best, roscoe. Yawn.
#120
Posted: 7/22/08 at 4:28pm
Thanks for the reminder Jerby, but it still doesn't really make much sense. Who would stand for getting Gotham's crooks out of Gotham before anyone else?
Oh, Jerby, you mad romantic fool. You know you want me. Kiss me, you beast.
Oh, Jerby, you mad romantic fool. You know you want me. Kiss me, you beast.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#121
Posted: 7/22/08 at 4:43pm
They addressed that, too. Then the crowds were throwing a fit as they boarded the prisoners. Maybe you took a pee break at that time?
A sense of humor. Hmmm. Maybe you aren't so bad.
A sense of humor. Hmmm. Maybe you aren't so bad.
#122
Posted: 7/22/08 at 4:47pm
Naw, I guess I was struggling to stay awake at that point in the film, it was pretty damn boring when Ledger wasn't onscreen. Between Batman's BROODING and Alfred's lectures on Batman's Semiotic Significance, the going got pretty dull.
Jerby, you mad wonderful fool. I can't resist you!
Jerby, you mad wonderful fool. I can't resist you!
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#123
Posted: 7/22/08 at 4:50pm
Not just that Mythus but her hair style. I guess no one had any hair spray to hold those pieces of hair that where flying out of her braid/bun thing. Poor Maggie.
#124
Posted: 7/22/08 at 5:00pm
I know what would have kept you awake! They should have made certain scenes take place in Batman's imagination. :)
#125
Posted: 7/24/08 at 12:59pm
I liked it very much. I felt like I was watching a high-budget miniseries in a single sitting, rather than a single movie, but it was grand. Incredibly busy, but grand. And Batman took his shirt off twice. :3
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