Thoughts on Lowering Keys and Artistic Integrity

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 11:37am

When does it matter that a song has to be lowered or mad more high for a certain performer? Does it never matter?

In my opinion, it usually doesn't matter. Madonna singing lower in Evita didn't bother me. I do think that it matters when the lowering or heightening of the key changes the mood of the song. For example if you take a sweet song and make it extremely low it may not sound as sweet or vice versa. Just wondering about thoughts on this.

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 11:37 AM

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 11:50am

The problem I had with the lowering of keys for Madonna in EVITA has less to do with Madonna and more to do with the piece. I find it very static, the only thrills provided by the insanely high notes Eva is required to belt.

Otherwise, I don't think it's a problem.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 12:18pm

I agree with robbiej. When Evita belts those high notes: "He supports you, for he loves you..." it brings an emotional high to the audience.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 12:34pm

The thing is -- without getting into a big music theory discussion -- different keys have a specific character and set a specific mood, emotionally and psychologically. There's a reason the composer wrote a piece in the key he did and altering that can change the feeling that the song was meant to convey (especially if you shift from a major to a minor key). With certain congs it's not really a big deal and at times, because of limitations in a singer's range, it can't be avoided, but transposing should always be done with care.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:02pm

It's half and half. My first thought is that aside from people with perfect pitch, it shouldn't affect the audience as long as the song resides in the same place in the singer's voice--that the energy created in a singer's voice when they are singing high for them is the same.

But, Webber (like Britten) writes for high voices for a reason and at some point, you don't have to have perfect pitch to sense that the music is not the same.

But, how many times have we heard a Soprano sing a song, then a Tenor, then an Alto and have enjoyed all 3 versions? They are in different keys or octaves.

And specifically to Evita--Madonna sings half of the those "New Argentina" lines up the octave and the other half down the octave intentionally. They are down the octave when she is on the radio and up the octave when she is giving a speech. This was a specific choice.

I don't think the key changes are the issue in Evita--I think Madonna's not having the kind of voice that you might want for Evita (a Patti or Elaine type voice) is the issue. While I enjoy the film and Madonna's performance, I wish she had been allowed to belt and growl the rock parts more like she has done in some of her music.

Changing the keys to suit the performer is very common on Broadway--and isn't automatically a sign of weakness.

Sometimes a composer wants a certain key--sometimes a composer sets the key for a particular singer.

Many times, the key in the OBC is not the key released for the public in sheet music.

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 01:02 PM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:35pm

"Elaine, your voice is tired. Let's take it down a step."
"No, I want to sing it in the original key"
"Send the old biddy home. We'll lay the orchestral track and she can sing it if she ever gets her voice back"

Loosely paraphrased from D.A. Pennebaker's "Original Cast Album - Company"

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:41pm

This is one of those issues that varies from composer to composer and, probably, from orchestrator to orchestrator and singer to singer and fan to fan ... In my dealings with composers there have been times where they put their foot down and insist on a key and some where they just change the key on the whim of who they want to cast in a role, not really caring about the key they wrote it in.

Given that, I think it's pretty much a case-by-case issue and there's really no point in having an over-riding stance on one side of the issue or another because there's no universal truth regarding it.

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 6:16pm

I've never taken a theory class, but I've got the basics down.
I cannot for the life of me understand why transposing something from one key to another would change the mood.
I mean, a switch from major to minor, obviously.
But like C major to G major...
All the intervals are still the same.
Other than the extent of how high and low the pitches go, I don't see much of a difference.
I have friends who are music majors who have explained that there are differences, but I just don't get it.

I can read music and I have a very good sense of relative pitch, so I don't think that I lack musicality, but I have a feeling that this is one of those things that I will just never understand.

('half-lives of unstable compounds' is on that list as well.)

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 6:23pm

I think the argument that changing keys is bad could be argued scientifically. Music IS physics and different pitches vibrate off the room and through our bodies differently.

But, again, I think the "tension" created by a singer's high notes in their respective voice range is also a place of excitement.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 6:55pm

based on nothing other than my own warped sensibilities, if you can't sing it in the key in which it was written, look for another part.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 6:59pm

warped indeed.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:01pm

y'know, it's not that much of a stretch for me to show up at the duplex solely for heckling, buster.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:04pm

yes, it would be, Mr. Ohio. lol

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:07pm

while i am an ohioan, i am not the mr. ohio, although i hear he will be wrestling at our venue on sunday, sunday, sunday.

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:10pm

From a drag contest - apparently, Ohio is a place where the men are men, and the women are, too.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:15pm

friggin' dayton.

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:18pm

papa - I'm sorry, I'm just trying to understand - are you datin' Mr. Ohio?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:19pm

Caps restored.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:20pm

this is getting kinda meta, d. are you asking if i'm datin' the mr. ohio male impersonator pictured here? 'cuz that's a chick, dude. holy chromosomes, batman!

lol, and i even did that without tryin', pj. how's that ocd therapy coming?

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 07:20 PM

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:23pm

Getting back on topic - they might have to lower the keys for her - especially if you get ahold of her, Boy Wonder.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:25pm

oh, i hope she wants to work on her fingering...or even her vibrato.

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:27pm

What's that line from AveQ? Oh, yes - something like, "You can't touch me there! Oh! Touch me there!"

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:29pm

i was always such a fan of joan jett's li'l riff on that idea...

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:29pm

Those high notes in Evita also define character. Without them, Evita is less edgy and less exciting.

Posted: 9/28/05 at 7:34pm

I did a monologue in a play called PARTY that was all about the problems with Madonna as Evita - and one of the biggest sited was her inability to hit the high notes. According to the playwright (David Dillon) what made Evita so exciting was hearing her belt all those high notes, wheras Madonna was all light and breathy and wispy - or "just the qualities I think of when I think of Evita."

Without making any comment, I'll just say that the monologue always brought a huge round of laughter and applause from the predominantly gay male audience.