Torchwood: Children of Earth *contains spoilers*- Page 4

[LaurenB]

Posted: 7/25/09 at 2:27pm

I think they said he (Clem?) was reaching puberty, and therefore the aliens didn't want him.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 7/25/09 at 2:46pm

but there were a few of the kids who HAD to have been puberty age (like Frobisher's older daughter).

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:10am

We finally watched this last night, so I finally read this thread. I'm totally shattered from it. The writing, the direction, the acting...all superb, all perfect.

For all the Gwen-bashers, you're missing some wonderful, multi-leveled acting.

As commented by others, Ianto's "in a thousand years, you won't remember me" broke my heart. And Rhys's love for Gwen makes me happy.

I don't think she's a bitch--if I were exposed to John Barrowman that intimately, my partner would just have to live with my eternal connection to him. (My partner wouldn't mind, actually.)

And for those who think John Barrowman can't act, fine, don't watch him.

Yes, they used the children for drugs. Their hormones and such were used. Although they never really explained why they let that one kid go (forgot his name) in 1965

I thought the children-as-drugs idea seemed a little petty, but I'm glad they didn't go with some corny old sci-fi world-domination cliche.

And they one they let go was Clem. The 456 referred to him right before they killed him as "The Remnant." They were using him for "transmission"--in other words, he wasn't crazy when he kept saying "They know I'm here"--he was being used since 1965 to spy on Earth.

We're going to watch it again to pick up on what we missed.

I don't need another series. I'm full.

Updated On: 7/26/09 at 11:10 AM

[Q]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:39am

Great post, PJ.

[Plum]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 3:04pm

And for those who think John Barrowman can't act, fine, don't watch him.

No idea if this was aimed at me, but here's the thing - I think he's perfect for Captain Jack as he was originally conceived - the slick con man, the cheerful snake with a heart that's at least partly made of gold. The guy who told the Doctor he'd been much better off as a coward. (Still probably my favorite of Barrowman's dramatic line deliveries.) The Super Angsty Leader-Man Jack of Torchwood is out of Barrowman's range and often hasn't made good use of his natural charm.

I really do think that part of the reason "Children of Earth" was so sensational was that it leaned heavily on Capaldi and the other wonderful one-off actors they hired just for this series, whereas a regular episode of Torchwood had to lean much more on the regular cast, of whom Eve Myles and Burn Gorman were the only above-average actors IMO.

This time they still gave Myles plenty to do and were judicious with what they gave Barrowman and Gareth David-Lloyd. I think the latter is utterly sensational at deadpan humor, but again, a mixed bag on the Big Fat Angst moments he was given. Which isn't an insult! Humor is damn hard to do.

And Torchwood would have been so much better all along if it had written to its actors instead of writing to its misconceived notions of what "adult" sci-fi should be. "Children of Earth" is one of the few times the show really felt adult, as in dealing with adult problems and emotions, as opposed to "adult" in the sense of "we're going to have lots of sex and violence and swear a lot!" For once the show was really living up to its potential. If they bring it back I hope they keep that up.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 4:26pm

I just don't agree with--or even see--any of your judgments about Barrowman's range or David-Lloyd's comic-only abilities or misconceived notions of adult.

It's as if you're critiquing an entirely different series. The Torchwood I watched was completely on a a par with the best television I have ever seen on BBC America or American network and cable television.

As far as wishing it had been "written to its actors," that's exactly what my partner and I have been commenting on since Season 1.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 9:19pm

I think the first season of Torchwood (minus a couple of episodes) is just....not that good. It was trying to hard to be the "adult" Doctor Who, and it turned out to not even be that "adult" (as Plum stated).

What made "Children of Earth" AMAZING is that it stopped trying so hard to be something and just write a really good story with brilliant acting and it was BRILLIANT (even BETTER than Doctor Who....wow, I know. Did I just say that?).

And I KNOW the "Gwen" comments were addressed to me. First, let me say I LOVED her in "Children of Earth." When I watched the series, she was okay but then I started to REALLY not like her. And yes, mainly because of the Rhys/Jack thing. I don't care if she loved Jack and still married Rhys. It was the moment, that she was kissing Rhys and LOOKED at Jack as to say, "Don't you wish this was you?" That was just evil to me. Rhys cared for her SO deeply and put his life on the line for her....and she does THAT. Hell no!

[Iluvlizlemon]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 9:39pm

I LOVED season 1 of TW, haven't seen season 2 (well, most of it) yet, but I ADORED Children of Earth. It was very good.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 9:53pm

she was kissing Rhys and LOOKED at Jack as to say, "Don't you wish this was you?" That was just evil to me.

I don't where you got that interpretation, but it's not what we got.

Perhaps it's like a Rorschach test.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 10:06pm

Why else would she look at Jack at that moment? Even on her wedding day she almost kisses Jack after professing her love, before you find out Jack is the Alien. Granted, it might have something to do with my past, but I just don't like what she does to Rhys.

[kec]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 10:57pm

My interpretation of that scene was that meeting Jack opened up a whole new world to her -- a world she would have never known about if she had married Rhys before Jack crossed her path. It's been clear to me that they both have a mutual attraction, but they both knew that really wouldn't work.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:00pm

Well said, kec. You may enter The Tavern.

[asdfghj2]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:03pm

Anyone else hear that Torchwood got picked up for another season?

I'm personally very intrigued to how exactly they're going to pick up after Children of Earth. I mean, the Hub as we know it is pretty demolished, the whole team is basically dead, and Torchwood is more well known by other governments and such.

I would love if Lois and PC Andy become part of the team. And Martha needs to come back!

Although if the first episode is Gwen trying to round people up and whining I'm going to vom everywhere.

SOURCE: http://www.comicmix.com/news/2009/07/25/exclusive-torchwood-picked-up-for-another-season-by-bbc/

[Iluvlizlemon]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:15pm

Who was PC Andy? was that Gwen's cop friend?

[asdfghj2]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:17pm

Yes! I love him!

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 7/26/09 at 11:23pm

That I'm fine with. But tomato/tomAHto.

[Plum]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 1:19am

PJ, I can't call a show that has two characters sleeping together only episodes after one killed the other's robot girlfriend a particularly well-written one.

Torchwood had its flashes of brilliance, even in S1. I think all the bits with Jack and Tosh in "Captain Jack Harkness" were just lovely, a nice little meditation on the masks Jack wears. There were parts of "Out of Time" I found to be thoughtful. I loved Jack's tenderness with Estelle in "Small Worlds". And "Combat" was good, as blatant Fight Club ripoffs go. Tellingly, it was written by Noel Clarke (Mickey on Who), who isn't a regular part of the staff.

But for every one of those nice things, there was Torchwood being utterly incompetent, selfish, and/or stupid: Releasing a sex alien by throwing sharp tools around, pressing the button on an alien device when they don't know what it does, etc. Way too many plots were premised on the aggravating "Jack witholds information" gambit. Owen wanted to open a freaking rift in space and time in order to get back a "girlfriend" that a) he'd only known for a few days, and b) voluntarily left him. Yeah, that's really the guy I want protecting civilization from alien invasions.

And while we're on the subject of Owen, there's always the bit where he's a rapist. Remember that alien pheromone spray in the pilot? How exactly is drugging someone into wanting to have sex with you acceptable? The show played it for laughs. It's that thoughtlessness that I couldn't take. They just weren't paying attention.

Jack spent a thousand years buried underground and kept his clothes, didn't go crazy, and didn't turn skeletally thin. Grey saw John throwing a ring into Jack's "grave" and wasn't at all suspicious despite being a so-called criminal mastermind. The evil carnies came alive from film through no mechanism that was ever stated. A woman was kidnapped and tortured before Torchwood had any real evidence that she was an alien at all, let alone a hostile one. The Cyberwoman wore metal high heels. They spent all of S1 telling us how great Gwen is without showing it. (They finally fixed that in S2, but it was a violation of Characterization 101 for a long time there.)

If it wasn't that, it was the show being ridiculous in a bad way. Now, a blowfish on coke stealing a car? I thought that part of "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" was hilarious. Having a pet pterodactyl in the Hub? Awesome. (What happened to Myfawnwy when the Hub blew up, anyway?) Owen wrestling Death the horribly rendered CGI smoke skeleton? Not so much.

When I think "great British TV" of that approximate time period, I think State of Play or Clocking Off or RTD's own Bob and Rose and The Second Coming. I think of a good chunk of Doctor Who and all of The Sarah Jane Adventures. I think Life on Mars. All of those have characters acting selfishly and plot holes you could drive a truck through, but when I watch them I get the story they're trying to tell and I sympathize with the characters I'm supposed to sympathize with, rather than hoping they'll die in a fire, Owen.

But I come not to bury Torchwood, but to use the Risen Mitten on it. Or something. If RTD sticks around - I don't think he will, but he might - I hope they stay with the 6-episode format. It's how he writes best.

A lot of the problems I had with the show were just gone in "Children of Earth". They did show Torchwood as being ethically challenged, but not in a way that made me want to kick Jack in the balls. All three members of the team were competent and didn't do anything blatantly stupid. When Jack regenerated after being blown up, he had to grow back everything, and it was disgusting to see and it made sense. The characterizations were consistent and layered. (I thought the fact that Ianto lied about his dad being a tailor was a great touch.) They were pervy and it was a funny sideshow rather than being all "Oooh! Ooh! Look what I can say past the watershed!"

I loved Gwen and Jack and Ianto as they were, flawed and funny and a real team. The conflict between their civilian lives and their Torchwood jobs was finally illustrated well. The series showed why being "outside the government, beyond the police" could be a good thing, whereas before it mostly seemed like a license for Jack to do (and hide) whatever he wanted. The destruction and mayhem was wrought by the enemy and not by Torchwood itself. (The image of all those red-wrapped bodies in the gymnasium at the end of Day 4 was a stunner, too.)

I guess I'd just rather watch a show that goes "the government is populated by self-interested cowards, Torchwood does its best but rocks fall and people die" than one that goes "Torchwood is populated by self-centered morons, so rocks fall and people die".


(And on a completely different note, I'm tickled that Torchwood can now plausibly field an all-girl team: Gwen as the leader/field agent, Martha as the medic/field agent, Lois as the administrator/maybe-techie, and that government assassin lady as another field agent.) Updated On: 7/27/09 at 01:19 AM

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 2:06am

I have seen each episode several times by now, and I truly don't tire of it. I did notice the other night that Steven is wearing a red jacket when they are running away (and get caught) ... the series is just full of foreshadowing.

[Q]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 2:12am

"two characters sleeping together only episodes after one killed the other's robot girlfriend"

As sexual politics/dynamics go - at least in my experience - it doesn't always take more than stepping into the next room, or even just across the body lying next to you on the floor.

All-in-all, I'm actually thankful that I don't need this kind of analysis to enjoy what I watch on TV. There was enough in the series - all of them - to engage my interest, tickle my emotions and make me happier at the end that I had watched.

[asdfghj2]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 2:31am

Pretty much agree with you on everything, Plum. However, I think a 5-episode format would get a bit redundant. I mean, how many end of the world as we know it ploys can there really be? I think what made Children of Earth so great was because it was such a change from the past two series.

Although I do realize that going back to the old format is going to seem boring and camp now. I'm not really sure which would be better in my mind, I'm just waiting to see what they end up doing.

Also, if there's an all female team with Gwen in charge, I'm going to punch somebody. But I guess Agent Johnson has enough balls for all of them.

Wishlist for next season:
- More PC Andy & Lois
- I think I read somewhere that Martha isn't coming back, but I hope that's false
- Gwen's baby taking up time where she could be at Torchwood
- Tosh, by some miracle, comes back (she's my ~fave~ I seriously cried harder when she died than I ever have in a movie/show)
- Captain John comes back! Spike + Jack = <3
- More stuff where they have to deal with the government (although maybe not on such a large scale)
- Rhys NOT becoming part of the team. I like that Gwen has a life outside of Torchwood, even if I don't like her.
- A Jack comeback that doesn't involve a cliche saving the world story. Also, Gwen must kick his ass hardcore. For all of us.

[Q]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 2:49am

The Gwen hatred is interesting to me. I find her to be one of the most well-thought-out characters I've seen in a long time - in any venue. Every action she's taken has seemed real and plausible - and ultimately, she's the 'connection' for the rest of us to that created world. Not to mention that I think the portrayal by the actress is stunning.

[asdfghj2]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 3:16am

I think most of it for me is the way she treats Rhys like garbage. I mean Retconning him after you tell him that you've been sleeping with someone else to make yourself feel better? Really? And the fact that she expects so much out of him. While she a)is sleeping with Owen and b)is in love with Jack.


Anyway, I've decided to start watching Doctor Who. Any ideas on where I should start? Beginning of Tenth Doctor?

[Q]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 3:23am

Yes, 'really'.

Life is messy, and answers don't come in easily digestible bits. Despite what you've mentioned, I never doubted her love or committment - and the fact that she dealt with very real emotional responses to her world only made her more real.

Perhaps that's the 'adult' part that was intended - and that some apparently have a problem with.

[Plum]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 7:25am

Yes, Retconning was definitely Gwen's low point. But Eve Myles sold it for me - Gwen had been losing her moral compass throughout the season and this was the culmination of that.

In the end, though, one of the smartest fixes they made in S2 was the decision to treat Rhys as something other than a hindrance to be condescended to. And I never really felt Gwen was in love with Jack. Fascinated by him, yes, but not in love.

I'm pretty sure Martha won't be back, or if she does come, it'll be in a very limited capacity. Freema Agyeman is moving on - she's in Law and Order: UK, recently did Little Dorrit, and probably has more stuff lined up that I don't know about.

Poor Tosh. I thought her double death scene with Owen was just wrenching, but the timing was piss-poor. They killed her before they gave the chance to do anything. She remained perpetually stuck as the mousy nerd girl with an unrequited crush on Owen - pretty much a sweet little doormat in human form. And I wish she'd gotten to be more than that girl who's lonely and unlucky in love before being shuffled off the show. Where was the Tosh in "Fragments", who could be moved to steal government secrets when pushed into a corner?

asdfghj2, I'd recommend starting with the Ninth Doctor, and not just because I'm terribly fond of his cranky self. It has a fantastic intro to Daleks, Rose being something other than constantly annoying, and of course, the introduction of Captain Jack! Seriously, if you're a fan of Jack you can't skip the episodes from "The Empty Child" to "The Parting of the Ways". They're essential to who he is.

(And oh my lord, I didn't realize how much I was writing before. Less coffee for me!)

Updated On: 7/27/09 at 07:25 AM

[kec]

Posted: 7/27/09 at 7:37am

"two characters sleeping together only episodes after one killed the other's robot girlfriend"

Maybe my memory is off, but I don't remember that happening. There was a lot going on in that episode and other than Jack doing the mouth-to-mout to revive him (which did turn into a kiss) which happened before they shot Lisa in her new body, there was no indication that they went off together. I think the relationship started to pick up speed at that point, but didn't really catch on until after Jack returned from his jaunt with the Doctor.

Q I agree with your assessment of Gwen. In her first year with Torchwood she made some mistakes, and took some actions that were not wise, but she righted herself as best she could. Jack has called her the "heart" of the team because of her being "grounded" (for lack of a better word) outside of the Hub, and Rhys is part of that grounding. The baby will provide even more grounding.

asdfghj2, I recommend starting the new Doctor Who series from fist episode, "Rose" with Christopher Eccleston.