Toys Depicting 9/11 Attack Recalled — Page 2

Amen to that, Dgrant

I think we should all take comfort in the idea that the people who made these things, probably don't have many friends.

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may grace and peace be in the soul of someone who lost a loved one in that experience should they happen to run into someone wearing that shirt.

i respect your attitude, d, and really appreciate your sensitivity in these matters of dealing with these heinous pieces of less than dung. i would, however, being the radically violent war monger that i am, hope that any poor soul who lost a loved one who had the misfortune of running across a miscreant adorned with this kind of artwork would be armed as no court in the land should be able to convict them for making room for a more thoughtful soul by clearing such vile fools from the earth.

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Updated On: 8/28/04 at 02:02 AM

d, that's why ya have friends like me who have no qualms about busting a cap or two.

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lol, no worries, d. i'm pretty secure and always welcome another ally, even a pacifist.

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just as nathan bedford, black jack, ol' blood and guts, dougie and stormin' norman are heroes of mine. and before you go kkk on nate, he was the best pure cavalry warrior the nation ever produced.

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papa - I accept that agression is something that seems to have come along with human existence. I also believe, however, that if we are to have a future at all worth living in, we need to find a way to move beyond that urge. Where to draw that line is always sticky, of course, since no one wants to lay down their weapon first and become vulnerable. But I am happy to be at least a bearer of the torch for a more enlightened and noble existence. To not even acknowledge its possibility is a fatalistic stance that makes no sense to me at all.

papa - I choose to consider myself part of the evolutionary process. Not that I'm not mindful of my own safety, but I'm not going to passively sit back and accept this as the only way for things to be. If you don't change anything, the reaction stays the same.

bythesword - I understood your position on that. What I didn't agree with was just sitting back and not confronting it. You said it would involve addressing their 'free speech' perogative - I disagree. I believe if someone thinks like that, then that expression is what will result - and they have that right. But the rest of us have a CHOICE in how we react to it. And I EMPHATICALLY SAY NO !!! Just because someone makes it doesn't mean it has to be distributed or marketed. And if it is, and someone actually buys it, the rest of us can very definitely register our discontent with that choice. Not inhibit it, but register our disgust at the choice.

bythesword - you are right, on an official level it is being addressed. But you seemed to be saying they should have just done it quietly and not 'stirred the pot' of people's emotions. Again, I disagree. In these times of unrest and confrontational attitudes, I think anything that makes people confront how they think and feel is a good thing. We have led ourselves - especially in America - to a place of uncertainty and unrest. Trying to 'keep peace' will do nothing but allow things to simmer - and eventually boil over. Anything that can be the catalyst for public discourse and evaluation has relevancy to me - and many others who are tired of living with this nonsense.

Im telling you guys. Its some nerd looking for some attention. His girlfriend is probably really ugly and picks her nose. And his nose.

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bythesword - that's an incredibly valid point, and I would be callous in the extreme not to be sensitive to the pain and anguish that survivors would suffer. In response, I'll share a little story from my past. I lived at the Grand Canyon for quite awhile, and was in a management capacity. We had a very unfortunate incident where one of the employees fell and was killed. Not too long after, someone actually arrived there who tried to sell t-shirts with a cartoon depicting someone photographing someone on the edge with the caption ' just take one little step back.' Now, we could have dealt with this quietly, and had the situation just disappear. But, we made the very conscious choice to go public with our interference, precisely because we wanted it to be public knowledge that this type of thing was hurtful and not to be tolerated. An interesting side effect was someone who came to me afterward (who had been a close friend of the person who died) and said 'thank you' for our action. It made them feel like their pain was acknowledged, and that they weren't alone in there anguished response to the insensitivity of someone else.

What it boils down to for me, I guess, is this: We have so little to hold onto as we stumble through the process of existence - everything, it seems, is designed to cause fear. One thing we can give to each other is awareness of each other's individual experience. While I understand the pain you describe that survivors might experience in having that shown to them, I feel it is outweighed by their knowledge that they are not alone in their desire to have this never happen again - and that, even in a VERY small way, can be shown by confronting the ignorance and stupidity inherrant in these creations head on.

Updated On: 8/28/04 at 03:19 AM

I am all for showing support for people and for showing them that their pain and suffering is acknowledged and that people are standing up for them. My belief in not putting it to them comes from this:

One of my cousins (I actually have three who were involved in the post 9/11 clean up but this only has to do with one of them) is part of the FDNY and was one of those first groups there who lost almost everyone. Thank God he wasn't one of the one's lost. He then was put on the special task force and so was there for every single thing that happened. As a result, he's got a lot of things going on inside him that have changed him- which anyone can understand. His mother, my aunt, went into full patriotic mode. The ribbons, the God Bless Those Who Were Lost, all that kind of thing. It was her way of showing support. When my mother called his house one time to see if his wife needed help with their kids and just to see how he was doing, she was told by him that sometimes the only way to move on is to not have it continually brought up. To acknowledge that it happened and show support is one thing. To him and his co-workers and friends, everytime it gets brought up they get immediately brought back to it or something pertaining to it. That's not to say they're ignoring that it happened or trying to block it out, they're just trying to move on.

Based on that, and to a lesser degree the experiences I've had with other relatives and friends which where involved more so than I was, is where my belief that now- coming up on three years later if you can believe it- these people are finally putting it behind them and I just hate seeing them be reminded of how awful human beings can be.

That being said, DGrant, all points on all sides are valid.

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