What CONSERVATIVE president KNEW tax CUTS would help save the economy??- Page 2

[fingerlakessinger]

Posted: 11/25/12 at 10:14pm

Mikey is an troll. Let his piss poor excuses for arguments die out and let him complain about Obama's Presidency to the only people who will agree with him, over at Fox News.

Updated On: 11/25/12 at 10:14 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 12:48am

Well, except of course the whole general welfare concept is repated in Article 1 Section 8, in conjunction with the levying of taxes, along with this rather broad power:

"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof..."

And, then of course, there is the 16th Amendment, which specifically provided for the federal government's ability to assess income tax:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Pretty broad powers. Even if you are a strict constructional.

Posted: 11/26/12 at 3:17am

When do you think the economy tanked? Bush slashed tax rates in 2001- there never was a boom. There hasn't been a tax increase since right before the Clinton Boom.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 4:22pm

"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof..."

Not sure what you consider "broad" in that phrase since it limits the Congress to making laws that specifically address the FOREGOING POWERS mentioned in the Constitution. Which of the "foregoing powers" in the Constitution is the power to redistribute wealth?
Yes, the 16th Amendment gives the Congress the power to collect taxes on income, but it does not give the Congress the power to collect taxes FOR anything they want (if it does show me where). They are still confined to collect taxes ONLY to fund and carry out their Constitutional powers, of which the power "to counter recent wealth concentration" is NOT included (if it is show me where).

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 5:01pm

Mikey, I could just as easily ask where does the power not allow for those actions.

Income tax, and a progressive income tax in particular, is a means to redistribute wealth.

Show me where the constitution says that the federal government cannot use a progressive income tax to provide for the general welfare of its citizens.

While you are at it, show me where the Constitution equates people with corporations? Even strict constructionist on the SC bend the constitution to fit their personal agendas.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 6:57pm

You are joking, right???

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that any power NOT DENIED the federal government in the Constitution is a power of the federal government???
The Constitution tells the federal government what it CAN do. If it is not listed as a power of the federal government in the US Constitution then it is NOT a power of the federal government.
Read the 10th Amendment!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 7:27pm

I am specifically talking about the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified

Prior to enacting the 16th Amendment, income taxes were deemed unconstitutional because it did not apportion taxes among the states in conformity with the Constitution. In response to this ruling the 16th Amendment was proposed and ratified.

The 16th Amendment provides the federal government with broad powers to tax. There is no limitation on that power and the only specificity is to directly disavow previous limitations on direct taxes.

The 10th Amendment is pre-empted by the 16th Amendment. The power to tax is delegated to the Federal Government as agreed to by the states by virtue of the 16th Amendment.

So yes, as it pertains to the 16th Amendment, that is exactly what I am saying.

And, with that, I will take my leave from this thread - agreeing to disagree with your constitutional interpretation.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 8:19pm

You are ignoring my point because you know you have no Constitutional leg to stand on.
You keep arguing about the 16th Amendment giving the federal government the power to tax, which I do not disagree with. What you have not and will not address is the federal government's power to raise and SPEND those tax dollars in order "to counter recent wealth concentration." The federal government can levy taxes in order to fund that which is the federal government's CONSTITUTIONAL duty. It cannot raise taxes to spend on whatever the hell it wants. A government that can raise and spend tax dollars to do whatever it wants is NOT a "limited and well defined" federal government.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 8:46pm

You're no match for the fierce and clear-headed intelligence of YouWantItWhen

Give it up, Mike.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 9:45pm

poor Mikey, gets his ass handed to him and doesn't want to admit it.
Much like Romney.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 11/26/12 at 9:57pm

Troll got pwned.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 7:06am

"You're no match for the fierce and clear-headed intelligence of YouWantItWhen"

LOL!! And yet that individual was not able to specify where in the Constitution the government has the power to redistribute private property, which was the question I asked him/her repeatedly. And as further evidence of my "having my ass handed to me" this individual has fled the thread --oh, how easy it is when you have the FACTS (and the Constitution) on your side.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 8:42am

When one is arguing with fools, why stick around?

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 9:00am

[Yawper]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 12:49pm

all taxing/tax cutting/grant giving/subsidizing/spending is redistribution of wealth



Updated On: 11/27/12 at 12:49 PM

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 5:48pm

"all taxing/tax cutting/grant giving/subsidizing/spending is redistribution of wealth"

Not really. Taxing to fund the military or to maintain roads is not redistribution and is a granted power (among others) in the US Constitution. Government grants and subsidizing are not mentioned in the Constitution as a federal power and are therefore unconstitutional.

[Yawper]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 6:12pm

Military spending is one of the biggest re-distributions there is.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 8:34pm

Call it what you will, military spending is one of the responsibilities of the federal government according to the Constitution. I can cite the Article and sections. No one can do the same for Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Agriculture, National Foundation for the Arts, National Public Broadcasting, Environmental Protection Agency, Foodstamps, Social Security and countless other federal departments and agencies that are nowhere to be found in the Constitution.
The federal government is a function of the Constitution. The Constitution is NOT a function of the federal government.

[Yawper]

Posted: 11/27/12 at 9:48pm

Certainly it is. That's why it's amendable.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/28/12 at 1:16am

It is amendable, but not by the federal government. The states are needed to amend The Constitution.

[Yawper]

Posted: 11/28/12 at 7:40am

And who/what makes up the federal legislative body?

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/28/12 at 4:54pm

Any amendment, regardless of how it is proposed, must be ratified by the States.

[Yawper]

Posted: 11/28/12 at 5:48pm

you don't get it...at all

you'll get another chance in four years

[mikey2573]

Posted: 11/30/12 at 9:43am

We'll find out who "didn't get it" this past election as we watch what happens over the next 4 years. My hope is the Republicans give this president and his supporters everything he wants; simply rubber-stamp his agenda. Then he will have to own it. No more blaming Bush or the "Obstructionist Republicans". Let him have his will and let's sit back and watch what happens.
Stay tuned in January when the layoff-bomb goes off.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/30/12 at 1:10pm

And if not? Then what will you Waaaaah waaaah about?

I can tell you, as a small business owner that the econmy is recovering wonderfully. I am actually looking to hire two to three more employees after the first of the year. I have noted a large amount of work calls coming in as investors feel more comfortable in green lighting projects. Tell me about the gloom and doom Mikey, please?

Updated On: 11/30/12 at 01:10 PM