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#1

Why "gay?"

Can someone explain the terminology? Is it because you all are so merry?
You promised me poems. ~Tricky
#2

re: Why 'gay?'

I don't believe I've ever been referred to as "merry," so I don't think that's it...
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#3

re: Why 'gay?'

Of course you're not merry you cynical old bitch.







kidding, kidding.
re: Why 'gay?'
You know I love you Rath.
Honey, I don't produce theater. I am theater.
#4

re: Why 'gay?'

"Cynical old bitch" is definitely more along the lines of what I'm used to hearing than "merry". re: Why 'gay?'
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#5

re: Why 'gay?'

Google is a wonderful thing.....this was interesting

The use of the term gay, as it relates to homosexuality, is documented as early as the 1920s. A quote from Gertrude Stein's Miss Furr & Mrs. Skeene (1922) is possibly the first traceable use of the word, though it is not altogether clear whether she uses the word to mean lesbianism or happiness:

They were ...gay, they learned little things that are things in being gay, ... they were quite regularly gay.
The 1929 musical Bitter Sweet by Noel Coward has the first uncontested use of the word: in the song "Green Carnation", four overdressed, 1890s dandies sing:

Pretty boys, witty boys, You may sneer
At our disintegration.
Haughty boys, naughty boys,
Dear, dear, dear!
Swooning with affectation...
And as we are the reason
For the "Nineties" being gay,
We all wear a green carnation.
Coward uses the "gay nineties" as a double entendre. The song title alludes to the gay playwright Oscar Wilde, who famously wore a green carnation himself.

Bringing Up Baby (193re: Why 'gay?' was the first film to use the word "gay" in reference to homosexuality.

Gay was originally used purely as an adjective ("he is a gay man" or "he is gay"). Gay can be also used as a plural collective-like noun: "Gays are opposed to that policy;" although this usage may be deprecated by some, it is common [1] particularly in the names of various organizations such as PFLAG: (Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) and COLAGE (Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere). It is rarely used as a singular noun "he is a gay" and sounds unusual in this context, such as in its use by the Little Britain comedy character Daffyd Thomas (a gay man who believes himself "the only gay in the village" despite abundant evidence to the contrary).

In the 1960s, gay became the term predominantly preferred by homosexual men to describe themselves. Gay was the preferred term since homosexual was the name used by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) to denote men affected by the "mental illness" of same-sex attraction. The illness of homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1973, but the clinical connotation of the word was already embedded in society.

By 1963, the word was known well enough by the straight community to be used by Albert Ellis in his book The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Man-Hunting.

It has been claimed that "gay" was derived as an acronym for "Good As You", but this is a backronym (based on a fake etymology).

Another folk etymology accrues to Gay Street, a small street in the West Village of New York City — a nexus of homosexual culture. The term also seems, from documentary evidence, to have existed in New York as a code word in the 1940s, where the question, "Are you gay?" would denote more than it might have seemed to outsiders.





It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956

Updated On: 11/10/05 at 09:42 AM

#6

re: Why 'gay?'

There is a very succint and informative article on precisely this topic here:
Origins of Gay
Suzanne: I never use catalogs. I'd rather go in the store and see all the salespeople groveling and sucking up to you. Julia: Pardon me, I never knew they were so solicitous at the K-Mart.
#7

re: Why 'gay?'

"Cynical old bitch" is definitely more along the lines of what I'm used to hearing than "merry".



Clearly.
Honey, I don't produce theater. I am theater.
#8

re: Why 'gay?'

Oh, Elphaba, I know I could have googled it. But why would I want to when I have all you wonderful people to give me your view? Thank you, my merry friend.
You promised me poems. ~Tricky
#9

re: Why 'gay?'

Because in "Dark Victory", Bette tells them to go and "be gay, be very, very gay!!!". And so the leaders of the Velvet Mafia got together and adopted that term out of respect for Ms. Davis, who was our chief Diva at the time.

Interestingly, her estate gets a royalty payment every time the phrase is used.

"They have never understood, and no reason that they should. But if anybody could . . . " --SS
#10

re: Why 'gay?'

Gay SHOULD only be used as an adjective.
Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none
#11

re: Why 'gay?'

bta -- re: Why 'gay?'

This is why Google is just never enough.
You promised me poems. ~Tricky
#12

re: Why 'gay?'

SG--Well, Google has the conventional explanation, and it is correct as far as it goes.

The "street" explanation is rarely spoken of, but you can all keep a secret, right?

"We can keep this just between the, uh, four, five six of us, right?"

"It's a world-wide hookup, countess!"
"They have never understood, and no reason that they should. But if anybody could . . . " --SS
#13

re: Why 'gay?'

no one said google, or any one site was ever enough. But the more places you check, the more answers you'll get. And I doubt, seriously, that anyone could give an explnation of why that would be entirely correct......
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
#14

re: Why 'gay?'

I believe the term of choice in the 19th century was "Uranian," followed in popularity by "invert." Read Graham Robb's Strangers; it's a very good look at the status of homosexuality back then.
#15

re: Why 'gay?'

As one of the older "gays" on the board (that was for you , Namo), what I heard from MY elders was that "gay" was black slang for "prostitute" (prostitution was the "gay" life), and it became a coded reference in the 1920s for homosexuality. Then in the 1930s, it became more widespread, the way it was used in Bringing Up Baby and several Cole Porter and Noel Coward lyrics.

But it wan't until the "gay liberation" movement in the 1960s and 70s that it actually started to replace "homosexual" as any kind of official word.

---

From Cole Porter's "Farming" (1941):

Don't inquire of Georgie Raft
Why his cow has never calfed.
Georgie's bull is beautiful,
But he's gay!

Updated On: 11/10/05 at 12:20 PM

#16

re: Why 'gay?'

The 1929 musical Bitter Sweet by Noel Coward has the first uncontested use of the word: in the song "Green Carnation", four overdressed, 1890s dandies sing:

So the term has roots in musical theatre. How fitting.

BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."

Updated On: 11/10/05 at 12:31 PM

#17

re: Why 'gay?'

Yep, the green carnation and, I think, the color green in general were considered signals of homosexuality way back when.
#18

re: Why 'gay?'

before the "red" tie in the early 20th century
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
#19

re: Why 'gay?'

1938 Elphie...

Cary as Dr. David Huxley, asked by Mrs. Carlton Random why he was wearing Susan's bathrobe: "Because I just went GAY all of a sudden!"

It's one of my faves...
#20

re: Why 'gay?'

Because it's so much easier to say when you are drunk, than homosexual.
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2
#21

re: Why 'gay?'

That's deep, Diva.
You promised me poems. ~Tricky
#22

re: Why 'gay?'

So where did "queer" come from? I'd google, but I'm thinking googling "queer" would just give me a bunch of links to FreeRepublic.
#23

re: Why 'gay?'

To queer, the only connection I can think of is that queer means...weird? And I suppose being homosexual was percepted as "weird" at one point in time and just decided to say, "Hey, those people are pretty queer."


And I suppose it just caught on.
This is my signature.
#24

re: Why 'gay?'

Sigh. You're all too young to remember Queer Nation and the "reclaiming" of the word "queer" in the face of AIDS.

Does no one else remember chanting:

We're here! We're queer!
We're FABULOUS--get used to it!
We're here! We're queer!
We're FABULOUS--get used to it!

Anyone...?
#25

re: Why 'gay?'

I think I read about it in a book once. re: Why 'gay?'

But how did it come about as a derogative first?

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