A LES MISERABLES "What if...?" question for discussion

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 11:38am

With the revival coming soon, the many MIZZIES on here and the tour reviews out there, I have been thinking...

If Fantine had lived, would she and Valjean have gone on to build a life together?

I believe they would have.

It's obvious he feels for her. She respects him and says she thinks he comes from God in Heaven - she considers him a blessing in her life. COME TO ME is very poignant. Valjean sings to her "***OUR*** TIME IS RUNNING OUT..." She trusts him enough to entrust Cosette to him. Something special had grown between them.

Any thoughts?

[AshleyBrownFan123]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 11:43am

Does Fantine die because she was beat by the guy, or was she sick? Did she use Cosette as an excuse for medicine?

[willact4food]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 11:44am

oh, definitely. it's quite apparent that valjean and fantine cared very much for eachother, even tho they were around eachother for a short amount of time. and like u said, EponineAmneris...fantine DID trust valjean to take care of her daughter after she had gone. and i think the end of the show also kind of gives an idea that they are going to spend the rest of their lives together in the next world. that last sentence probably didn't make any sense, but you get what i'm saying

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 11:46am

Fantine had tuberculosis, a serious lung illness that killed many in that era.

The Thenardiers, who are boarding Cosette, extort money from Fantine; they say she is sick when she is really not to get Fantine to send more francs for her keeping. Fantine does not use Cosette as an excuse for anything

Hope that helps

[AshleyBrownFan123]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 12:02pm

Thanks!

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 12:17pm

You are quite welcome, AshleyBrownFan123 Anytime.

LOVE your image and you made complete sense, willact4food *sigh* Valjean & Fantine sititng on their cloud... watching over Cosette & Marius

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 12:24pm

Eh, I'm not sure. While I'd like to think so, I don't think it's really realistic. Valjean felt a sense of duty for her more than anything; also a sense of guilt because he hadn't done anything to prevent her from getting fired.

And, yeah, Fantine was really sick by the time she got arrested. She had also sold her teeth and hair for money.

[jasonf]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 12:35pm

I second SporkGoddess. One of the very few things that I always found strange about the book (and therefore all other incarnations of the story) is Valjean doesn't have a single romantic bone in his body. There is NO romantic love story for him at all in all 1450 odd pages of the book.

I don't think that he felt that way for Fantine at all. He looked at her as someone who he had wronged, who he would be able to help, just as the bishop helped him. His caring for her was not at all romantic. He gave her shelter and then promised to take care of Cosette (again, trying to right his part in getting her fired), nothing is mentioned of a feeling of even lust, let alone actual LOVE for her.

Maybe it was the religious moral ground that Valjean found, but even if Fantine was well and came onto him, my image of the scene would be of him pushing her away, looking on her almost pityingly - that this poor creature is changing her feelings of gratitude for the rescue into what she believes he would want. I can definitely see her, if she wasn't sick, falling for him, but nothing anywhere in the book would indicate to me that he would return that.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 12:49pm

Well put!

The reason Cosette is so important is because before her, Valjean had never loved anyone. He comes to love her in every way imaginable. If he had loved Fantine, that wouldn't be so much of a revelation for him.

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 12:59pm

In the musical, he most certainly cared deeply for her and she him. Or at least that is how I have seen it portrayed. I can't be that stupid and blind Course I am a hopeless romantic.

After the first time we saw the show, my parents both commented on their relationship.

Since other versions were brought up, in the movie version with Liam Neeson and Uma Thurman, there was OBVIOUS sexual tension and romance between them. If we look directly at the book, then I can see a little bit where you are going with this, jasonf and SporkGoddess, and you both spoke your thoughts well...

Updated On: 6/25/06 at 12:59 PM

[Weez]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 1:04pm

Hell NO. I have yet to see the show, but I've listened to my recordings and read the first half of the original novel, and there's absolutely NO "in that way" about it. In the show, some Valjeans and Fantines may choose to play it as though there'd be something between the two of them, but just the characters on their own, I don't see anything of that.

Fantine trusts her child to Valjean, which is a big thing, but he's hardly the untrustworthy type. He moved to that town years before, worked his ass off to give everyone a better standard of living, and is mayor at the time of her death. I'm having difficulty thinking of a modern day equivalent, but if you were in a small town and the incredibly dedicated caring mayor said he'd look after your child after your death, I'm sure that you - on your deathbed - wouldn't mind too much.

Anyway. ^_^

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 1:07pm

You'll have to forgive me... Les Mis is my favorite novel ever and I am a huge purist about it. I do love the musical, but the novel will always remain superior to me. The movies were actually criticized for bringing about a Fantine/Valjean relationship.

As a hopeless romantic, myself, I would like to think that it happened (Fantine certainly deserves a nice man after Tholomyes,) but I just don't think there's anything to prove it other than sheer conjecture.

Also, Fantine is only in her 20's, and Valjean in his 50's or so by now. Not that love can't overcome that and back then age differences were common, but... it is possible she saw him as a father figure more than anything.

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 1:14pm

More good points, SporkGoddess.

The novel itself is my favorite book, too, and yes- I hold it in high regards The movies, comics and even the musical are all very different in some way, shape or form.

Guess I just saw something that wasn't really there. Sorry to bother everyone with my silly notions.

[EponineThenardier]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 1:20pm

Wasn't it Liam Neeson to Uma Thurman?

EDIT: nevermind, you changed it. :)

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 1:34pm

I didn't mean to make you feel silly... I think it's a very valid question! And any discussion of Les Mis is a good thing in my eyes.

[jasonf]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:11pm

Wait, comics???

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:25pm

Yes, I have a couple different comic versions of the story.

[jasonf]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:26pm

hm - interesting. Like the classics comics type of thing? (Sorry for the threadjack here)

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:32pm

I am not expert on this, but my understanding was that Valjean's actions were more out of a sense of duty and obligation. He was the one who had an inadvertent role on Fantine getting fired from the factory, which started her downward spiral. That spiral left a child without a mother. He had no choice but to right a wrong that he had inadvertently helped perpetrate on Fantine.

In my mind, Valjean had almost become a man of the cloth, taken a vow to God and was God's servant.

I do not see a basis for a romantic relationship here.

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:41pm

Again, so sorry I started this thread.

jasonf, please check your PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:43pm

Why should you be sorry?

Perhaps you saw a cast that had a chemistry that put the thought in your mind.

It has been an interesting discussion and though some may not agree with your interpretation, there is nothing to be sorry for.

Just my opinion.

[soapguy17]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:56pm

There is nothing to be sorry about. I would have loved to see some kind of something between the two. But, I didn't. I just skimmed the book again and I don't think either saw it that way. She saw him a a father-type, and he wanted to right a wrong.

[CurtainUp]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 2:56pm

It's a possibility, but I agree how Valjean was a servant of God. I actually wrote an essay in tenth grade how Valjean was the everyman and Fantine was Christ, and how Valjean became good through Fantine.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 3:05pm

Actually, Valjean's a huge Christ figure in Les Mis. I did my project for my senior year Religion in Lit and Media class on the religious symbolism in Les Mis.

But that's an interesting thought of Fantine as a Christ figure... most compare her to Mary Magdelen.

[TLKfan]

Posted: 6/25/06 at 4:23pm

I know for sure that they loved each other and ValJean had great respect and love for her, so I would say possibly yes. Who knows what Hugo would have written...