A Strange Loop Mini-Tour — Page 2

Jay Lerner-Z said: "It might also help me if people, instead of just telling me I am wrong and to shut up, could tell me WHY I am wrong. Perhaps then I would not feel the need to shout into the wind. I still have no idea what part of what I said you disagree with, Jason."

I'm not sure whether it's your idealistic "head in the clouds" view of this industry, your obnoxious need to make every single conversation on these boards about politics, your sadly-increasing-in-popularity "everyone who disagrees with my viewpoint is wrong" mentality, or some kind of annoying combination of all of the above, but you are very quickly becoming the most irritating poster on these boards.

Updated On: 11/6/23 at 05:10 PM

"...this industry"

Industry = commercial enterprise

That's not what theatre should be. I will concede that I was making a larger point, aimed at more than just the producers of this one show. I will do as you all request now and retire from this thread.

I'm coming out of retirement, just to say that my vision is of a federally funded national theatre. The shareholders would be the public. Every citizen of America. Millions, even billions, of tax is wasted every year. Our overblown weapons arsenal, for example. Sure, some voters might complain, but tough. In the grand scheme of things, we can easily afford proper arts culture.

While I agree with your sentiments for a National Theater, Jay Lerner-Z, and agree that the U.S. government could support more arts organizations; it's not like there isn't any funding—yes, overall arts spending per capita is lower than in several other countries which should change, but why aren't we getting more yield for the current input? In a way, the Kennedy Center is a sort of national theater in that it was set up by Congress and receives significant government funding. It is, but isn't, "the" national theater, but the U.S. government does subsidize it at around ~$40 million/year. For comparison, the U.K. government only gives the National Theater ~$20 million USD, and the Royal Shakespeare Company slightly less.

Perhaps a dollar amount of funding isn't necessarily the primary issue, but more that the type of content being created isn't being shaped as well as it could be? Or just the sheer cost of producing and performing content here is prohibitive?

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I'm coming out of retirement, just to say that my vision is of a federally funded national theatre. The shareholders would be the public. Every citizen of America. Millions, even billions, of tax is wasted every year. Our overblown weapons arsenal, for example. Sure, some voters might complain, but tough. In the grand scheme of things, we can easily afford proper arts culture."

I’m sure Mike Johnson will get a bill to the House floor on that pronto. He and the rest of the GOP love funding the arts and especially love funding queer, sex positive art.

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Should I be intimidated by Mike Johnson?

You're right, why bother even contemplating the idea. We should all just give up now. The GOP has won."

Nothing wrong with dreaming big, but if real progress is the goal and the big dream has little chance of succeeding, personally I tend to favor focusing on alternative and manageable ways of achieving the spirit of the dream and then rallying people to support those efforts to get some achievements banked and some momentum established.

As James Kouzes and Barry Posner found in their comprehensive research on extraordinary leadership, "Leadership is the art of mobilizing others to want to struggle for shared aspirations" (The Leadership Challenge, Wiley Publishing).

Kad rightly noted in an earlier post that many local and regional theater groups already are doing progressive and diverse productions. One strategic question that might be worth exploring is how might existing groups/efforts be further amplified and supported so that they might extend their reach to areas where such groups currently do not exist? Or, how might be initiated in locales that historically have been less hospitable to such programming?

Of course, questions like these have long been part of the agenda for many foundations, civic groups, and other like-minded organizations. Such groups may be a welcoming outlet for for those here who are looking to help make further change happen. Indeed one of the groups on whose board I serve does a deep dive into this topic at least twice per year.

And if some sort of national impact is the only goal of interest, I'd probably look to see how I could get involved with the existing efforts of Americans for the Arts, the Association of Performing Arts Professionals (APAP), and/or write/call my representatives in Congress.

Updated On: 11/7/23 at 10:00 AM

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I can hound my congressional representatives, support APAP... and still discuss the issue on a theatre board. These things are not mutually exclusive."

No one said you couldn't. God you really are insufferable. I really need to stop taking you seriously when no response is ever good enough for you no matter how thoughtful. It amazes me how many people are oblivious to turning off allies, thus unlikely to ever achieve any meaningful change.

Updated On: 11/7/23 at 01:24 PM

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I wasn't offering business advice. I was offering soul advice.

Don't invest in a show if you don't believe in its message, producers."

Broadway producers and tour producers are not necessarily the same investors.

This limited tour is all the current producers think they might be able to get their investment back from and, possibly, make a profit.

Jay Lerner-Z said: I don't deserve to be spoken to like that. I've been nothing but polite to you, and have taken your observations into consideration. Despite your patronizing and belittling manner. You are smarter than me. Is that what you want to hear? You have given me advice, Jason, now please let me give some to you. Treat people with respect.

This was as respectful as I felt your messaging merited. And it is laughable that you call me patronizing and belittling when so many of your comments judge other people's for not being as righteous as you about elitism and capitalism, often ending with your trademark ... sad!

And no I wasn't looking to hear anything from you about my intelligence because a stranger's assessment of it means nothing to me, nor should it. I was trying to provide information that might be helpful to you in your never-ending quest to change the political world via comments on a theater discussion board.

But enough. How about we just agree to ignore each other? Seems like the happiest of endings.

I don't feel anyone is deserving of being ignored.

coming here months later because i was googling for info on this, found this thread, and found Jay Lerner-Z being relentlessly thoughtful and correct on all points while everyone else snarked at them without considering the substance of their point. Wanted to be a voice for sanity so I'm posting this though surely no one will see.