A question about Times Square's history - Page 2

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 2:05pm

Yes, I'm referring to both the Marriott theatre and the hotel. It's a terrible piece of architecture. You step into it, and you could be in any Marriott in the world. Almost no aspect of it has any relation to New York or Broadway. It's a soulless, sterile concrete fortress.

For those who were born and grew up in the 80s and 90s and never saw the old Times Square, there are certain aspects that have been lost forever. There were a small handful of skyscrapers, but most of the district had very small scale, odd three and four story buildings. Light to the street was not as blocked as it is now, with the many skyscrapers that line Broadway and Seventh Avenue. Allowances were made to slap a couple of jaunty signs on the shins and ankles of these new buildings, but they still create the feeling of a shadowy canyon for pedestrians walking Times Square. It all looks very "Blade Runner" these days. But New York is ever changing (for better or worse) and one has to accept that things you love about it may not still be there 10, 20 or 30 years from now.

As much as the new Times Square is a safer, cleaner place to be and the theatre industry seems more robust than at the various low points of the 70s and mid 80s, I do miss the energy that the old Times Square had, and the rush of nervousness and excitement I used to feel walking the streets of Times Square. The only thing like it these days is San Francisco's Tenderloin - although there, I feared for my life in ways I never did in the heyday of "bad old Times Square".

[egghumor]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 2:11pm

Though they were both far from Times Square, I wish I could have a seen a show at the Ziegfeld and the Craig/Adelphi/George Abbott before they were demolished.


And what happened to the far uptown Harkness? Demolished or simply no longer booked for Broadway shows?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 2:13pm

"I miss the days when tourists were afraid of Times Square and a top Broadway ticket was 50 dollars..."

My first Broadway show, the rear orchestra price was $13.50.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 2:19pm

The Harkness was demolished.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 2:46pm

The only thing like it these days is San Francisco's Tenderloin - although there, I feared for my life in ways I never did in the heyday of "bad old Times Square".

I didn't actually visit NYC until five years ago, but of course before that, spent MANY hours in the Tenderloin. I've definitely felt safer this entire past year of living in NYC than I ever did in the Tenderloin. Even when I lived in Bed-Stuy.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 2:55pm

'The plastic mall-culture of the current Times Square is more offensive to me than the grittiness of the 80s. Today, New York City panders to a sexually-repressed, small-minded suburban soccer mom and her kids - the lowest form of humanity there is.'

Have to agree, i only saw NY for 2 weeks before the 'make over' and i loved it, something so dirty, dangerous but exciting and real at the same time. I think it's a bit more like a Vegas attraction now. It does not seem to have a real identity anymore

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 3:05pm

It wasn't just the theaters that got torn down. There were small office buildings--nor more than 5 or 6 stories--that housed theatrical craftspeople who made products that were used during the golden days of Broadway back to vaudeville days.

I remember a little building in 1982-83, on the south side of 47th Street, just west of Broadway, which was later torn down for part of the W Hotel. The building was owned by the Shuberts, and the top floor had once been one of Lee or J.J. Shubert's "hideaways"...presumably where he used to take chorus girls for sex.

The building had a birdcage elevator with an old-fashioned lever to make it go up or down. It could only fit 4 or 5 people, and the only door was one of those metal-grate doors that folded open like an accordion. It had a little seat, so there musty have been an elevator operator at one point in the past. You watched the walls go by as the elevator went up or down and prayed it would make it.

There were 5 stories in the small building and each one housed one shop only. There was a shoemaker who made dancing shoes and an old lady who sewed sequins and paillettes and bugle beads onto strippers costumes. Or at least she had in the past. We were never sure who she was making costumes for in 1983.

Gone.

Updated On: 4/5/12 at 03:05 PM

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 3:19pm

One other sad seemingly little remembered casualty of the construction of the Marriott Marquis was the demolition of the Hotel Piccadilly. It was on 45th Street, I believe between the Music Box and where the Morosco stood. It had a very busy coffee shop that I used to stop in to before matinees. I never got the chance to visit the Circus Bar! It was a little worn around the edges by 1982, but nothing that a good renovation couldn't have fixed.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 4:43pm

And don't forget Charlie's (which later became Sam's) and Barrymore's, down 45th Street toward 8th Avenue.

Those two (inexpensive) restaurants that catered not to tourists but to performers and stagehands were wonderful, wonderful places to go before and after shows.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:00pm

While on the subject of unique Times Square places that are no more... here's the Latin Quarter building, which was at 48th and Broadway. The former nightclub space had a brief stint as a legit Broadway house, first called 22 Steps and then the Princess Theatre, before being renamed the Latin Quarter again. It housed Madwoman of Central Park West, Pump Boys and Dinettes, Mayor and a battery of truly ghastly flops, including Fearless Frank, The Babe, Animals, Coquelico, Censored Scenes from King Kong... the list goes on. When it served as a Broadway theatre, I remember the whole exterior of the building was painted black. Very strange. But it looks rather pretty here in its earlier days.

Updated On: 4/5/12 at 05:00 PM

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:05pm

Anyone remember this garish monstrosity, a porn house that I think was next to the Barrymore Theatre on 47th Street? I think it still existed well into the 80s. Still, it was eye-catching...

Updated On: 4/5/12 at 05:05 PM

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:14pm

This is what Broadway at 49th Street used to look like (where the Crowne Plaza Hotel building is located.)

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:19pm

Disney or no Disney, the "Blade Runner" effect in Times Square was inevitable. Japan and China had been developing those centers for years and it was only a matter of time before Times Square followed suit. Giuliani and Disney just sped up the process a bit, but by the late 80s, you could already see it taking form. My first visit to Broadway was 1988, so I can't mourn the loss of that which I never knew, but I much prefer the Times Square of today to that of 1988 and the early 90s. I agree that the Marriott Marquis is an eyesore, though. Inside and out, that building is cold and gross. Love some of the shows I've seen there, but that's it. Can't say I miss the Gaiety. Went there once to see what all the fuss was about and it was one of the stupidest attempts at homo-erotica I've ever witnessed. For anyone who belittles an audience for giving standing ovations, try an audience that applauds an erection. At least it gave me some perspective.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:30pm

I remember sitting in the lobby of the Piccadilly Hotel waiting for a matinee to start. It had a very handsome exterior. I had forgotten about it and The Latin Quarter until you supplied us with still more goodies from yesteryear. Pal Joey, I don't remember the two restaurants you mentioned. Were they around in the early 1960's? That was when a friend and I went to the theatre a great deal. We used to hang out at the Sardi's downstairs bar with Ray the bartender, after seeing an evening performance, paying $3.40 to sit in the balcony. We saw the original production of THE BEST MAN, from the balcony of the Morosco Theatre, if I remember correctly.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:34pm

This was Broadway between 46th and 47th Streets - must be around 1978, since the movie version of The Wiz is playing at Movieland (while the Broadway show was still playing). Also Eubie and I Love My Wife.

Updated On: 4/5/12 at 05:34 PM

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:39pm

The Palace's original marquee...

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:41pm

Another view of Broadway from 46th to around 48th Streets...

[Gothampc]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:45pm

Smaxie, thanks for that picture. I had forgotten about that Burger King. I ate there once.

You can also tell the time of that picture because at the movie theater you see that "Foul Play" was playing.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 4/5/12 at 5:49pm

This is a screen capture from Midnight Cowboy, 1968. It's Broadway from 45th Street looking north, to about 49th Street (I think that's the Brill Building way off in the distance). No skyscrapers...